F.I.S.T./RADICAL FEMINIST NETWORK ANN M/ THERESA EL AMIN

I was asked by a woman named Sam Esther, who is also Ann M, to join a group called Old & New. She stated this group wanted to have Radical Feminist & WOC leadership. I joined but never got involved because I am not a Leftist or a Socialist. I am a Decolonizing Native and Radical Feminist.  I also don’t have interest in organizing with men though I stayed on the email list & never asked to be removed from the group. Down the road as a result of my membership in Old & New,  I received an invite to join a group called Radical Feminist Network or F.I.S.T. I accepted the invitation since I am a Radical Feminist.

A teleconference was scheduled for the Radical Feminist Group. Shortly before the first teleconference for F.I.S.T./Radical Feminist Network group I happened to glance at the email list & saw that both Linda Calder & Lois Kay (NOTE: Lois Kay is also Lucita Bosque) were on the email list for group members. I did not attend the conference because these women stood by & defended Laurin Crosson when I called her out on her fraud & claiming to be Black & racially profiled by police on multiple occasions, when she is white.

The next day Ann Menache contacted me via email & this series of events below followed. In light of the nature of these events we want to share all of these communications in order to allow Real Radical Feminists, especially Radical Feminists of Color to understand who these women are & what they stand for.  These women intend to recruit other WOC to their group which is a deep concern.

A few brief details prior to getting into the email exchanges:

You can hear Steve Bloom Man-splaining the Radical Feminist in the audience (video below) at about 1:20:00. These women, two of whom are commenting below in the emails, invited Steve Bloom to be on a panel for Women’s Liberation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyFeSsZyG28&feature=youtu.be

Theresa El Amin’s has a long standing connection & commitment to Steve Bloom as she expressed below, as does Ann Menache, the group founder. Here is one email where Theresa pledges her love & commitment to Steve.

Fwd: [oldandnew] Alleged Standstill

Inbox

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Laura Akers <	8:59 PM (2 hours ago)

———- Forwarded message ———

From: Theresa El-Amin <>
Date: Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 2:16 AM
Subject: Re: [oldandnew] Alleged Standstill

Dear Matt,

I find it outrageous that Kali has not put out the report on the two very small meetings held in NYC on July 31 and August 1. Kali is well known for not responding in a timely manner. My assessment of the situation in Jackson is that Kali is increasingly more isolated every day from forces in the larger BLM. I’ve been a monthly sustainer of Cooperation Jackson for years. I can’t get Kali to respond to basic request from any donor has the right to know. And yet, he is designated as the new leader of Old and New. Why?

The lack of accountability coming out of the New York process is the male domination/patriarchy that is intolerable. While in Brooklyn the weekend of August 18, I spent time talking with Steve. If his report of the NYC meetings is accurate, (and I have no reason to doubt that my longtime comrade would be anything else but accurate and precise) the one thing that came out of the NYC meeting is a plan to meet in Jackson. I oppose such a plan given the problems Kali is dealing with. I proposed a more neutral location for a retreat of Old and New, Highlander Center in New Market TN.

This is about the third time you have threatened to quit in some form or fashion, Matt. I don’t know you that well. I must say I’m disappointed in both you and Meg in the roles you’ve played or not played after making commitments. Old and New is the vision of Steve Bloom. I signed onto that vision and recruited others to that vision and introduced them to Steve. I know Steve. I want him in my life as a reliable ally in the struggle to dismantle white supremacy and as a comrade in the revolutionary struggle for democracy and socialism.

Steve believes in revolutionary organization, like I do. Matt, you told me that you “hate the US left.” Well, Old and New is about building the “next, new, US left”. Most of us have been or are in left organizations. I believe Steve will not quit. He and I have agreed to work together. He gets upset with me and I get frustrated with him. However, I think he knows I love him as a very dear comrade and will never quit on him. I may not follow him on an initiative, however I’m not quitting.

Ann invited several of us (as women) to join a new, nationwide feminist group. I hope to start paying attention soon to the discussion taking place inside the new feminist formation.

There is no need to be at a standstill waiting on you (Matt) or Kali. RnB is an all-white collective in Brooklyn, if I understand it correctly. Don’t see much of a contribution RnB can make to transforming Old and New into a people of color led formation in NY or outside NY.

 I think Steve is in a better place than he was before we began depending on the leadership of Kali and you, Matt.

Some of us are working together on various projects. SARN will begin celebrating its 20th anniversary with events in Durham NC and Columbus GA in November. Steve has agreed to serve on the SARN 20th Anniversary Support Committee. The culminating event will be in Atlanta, June 28-30, 2019. It’s my hope that Old and New will have a strong presence at the June conference.

I think several (all who attended the NYC meetings) of you should post your take on what happened at the two meetings. Sounds like only a few of you attended both meetings.

I’m not quitting. I have someone in Columbus GA who is thinking about joining O&N and interested in hearing more about the feminist group Ann is organizing.

Much respect and solidarity,

Theresa

And finally this is an exchange between Bev Jo and Ann M in which Ann tells Bev very clearly that she met all of the women at the conference who signed up to be added to the Radical Feminist Network group. You will see Ann later claiming over & over that she never even met Lois Kay or Linda Calder, who signed up at that conference she is referring to here in her communication with Bev. Yet here she states clearly that she met everyone at the conference. 

—–Original Message—–
From: Ann M <>
To: Bev <>
Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2018 2:03 pm
Subject: Re: Questions – National Radical Feminist Network

Hi Bev,

This is the same statement you saw before months ago – you were one of the first woman I shared it with.  I believe you had some criticism on language used to describe lesbians.  I may be forgetting something else you said. But I had the impression that you agreed with most of it.

I am very interested in hearing your thoughts and suggestions whichever way you prefer.  You can always call me on the phone – landline best – . .  If you can, I think it would be helpful to me for  you to at some point put proposed edits and additions on the document directly.  No rush though – I expect this will be a long process.

The women on the list are women that I’ve met personally at the conference and some friends in San Diego (the ones in SD are all lesbians), a couple of women I know in the Greens who oppose trans ideology,  plus women- all Second Wave veterans  who were involved in putting together the gender critical feminist workshop at the Left Forum, a couple of whom who also attended the conference plus a couple of FB friends that I’ve gotten to know fairly well. Max Dachu is not on the list.  If there are other women you are concerned about or would like me to invite, feel free to let me know who they are.  I’m still trying to get permission to share emails and hope to have a better listserv system set up.

Let me explain my vision of what this could be. I’m trying to bring together a diverse group of radical feminists lesbian and straight who may not agree on everything even with regard to feminism but who can share a common  set of bottom line principles that include addressing major aspects of female sex based oppression under contemporary patriarchy and can begin to take action together.  We are being attacked on all sides and need unity but on a principled basis. I don’t want trans identified males as members for example.  It needs to be female only, period, and gender critical. It needs to support abortion and support lesbians. And I don’t want anyone who supports the strategy of aligning with the Christian Right. I want to create an alternative to WOLF.

I was also meaning to write you with a brief report on the conference so here it is:

There were 70 women there – seemed to me like it was half lesbians or maybe a little under, about 15% women of color. It was multigenerational – mostly over 40, including veterans of the Second Wave , one woman in her 80s but some very young women (including a few young lesbians in their 20’s.)  Some “famous” women spoke: Sheila Jeffreys, Julie Bindel, Meghan Murphy, Ruth Barrett, Gail Dines etc. but the best part was the discussions that occurred in the workshops and around meals. Workshops covered topics such as lesbian feminism, male violence, prostitution & the sex trade, how to fight female Erasure, and race and feminism. Two impressive speakers were Ninotchka Rosca on cultural imperialism and the right to walk away, and Brie Jontry from fourth wave now on youth “transition” . It’s horrific what is happening to girls!

I co presented a workshop on Lessons on Second Wave Feminism with other feminist veterans which precipitated a lot of discussion and exchange of information and perspectives across the generations.

I felt incredibly stimulated by a pretty amazing group of women. It was the most in depth feminist discussions I’ve had in decades. It inspired me to begin moving forward on my project.

I was struck by how isolated so many feminists are feeling these days and how important it is to have face to face contact in order to rebuild our movement.  Young lesbians in particular are very very isolated.

I hope next time there will be more women and a greater participation by women of color. But given the conditions under which this was organized – completely underground invitation only-.the handful of women who put this together did a very impressive  job.

Let me know your thoughts.

Love,

Ann

Sent from my iPhone

Exchange Between Ann M and myself:

Radical feminist network

Inbox

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Ann M	Aug 14, 2018, 8:40 AM
to me

Hi Laura,

Missed you at our radical feminist teleconference last night.

Hope you can make the next one.

Minutes will be available in the next few days.

In sisterhood,

Ann

Sent from my iPhone

Laura Akers	Aug 14, 2018, 11:27 AM
to Ann

Hi Ann,

I have a child with autism who cannot stand it if I am on the phone so it isn’t always feasible for me but on top of that there are women in this group, Linda Calder & Lois Kay who actively lied about, trashed & banned me (and still are) when I called a con artist, Laurin Crosson, out within our RF circles since she preys on vulnerable women & I was seeing many RF’s being taken in by her con.

I won’t participate in a group with women who are not only not actual Radical Feminists, but who take racist misogynistic stands against real Radical women in order to maintain friendships & engage in White Fragility when called to unpack & BE Anti Racist. The way these women spoke to the black women who confronted them left me sick to my stomach.  (IMost of the Moderators of Refuse To Date Men Who Use Porn took that same position with the exception of Charro who left that group).

If you don’t know about Laurin Crosson you can read about her here. https://rockstarrministrieslaurincrosson.wordpress.com/2018/04/16/rockstarr-ministries-expose-of-laurin-crosson/  (If you have trouble getting the page from that link please go to WordPress.com and type Laurin Crosson Rockstarr Ministries expose in the search box.

Exposing her shut “Rockstarr Ministries” down for the most part but she is still at it. I just received this yesterday from another RF who is passing it around to warn people. I know for a fact that Linda Calder is still actively involved with Laurin Crosson & telling people that she has been victimized by those of us who exposed her. Last week out of the blue I was attacked by another woman in our circles who was seen going into private chat with Linda Calder & Laurin Crosson on that very day (which I didn’t know at the time but later found out)….so point being this is still very much ongoing, but even if it were not ongoing,  I feel uncomfortable about the fact that these women are in this group.

These two women, Linda and Lois refused to take a stand for Laurin’s victims, or for Black women & even banned my Black RF sister (this is a woman who knows Linda Calder personally) & refused to allow her to post a statement of concern about Laurin’s claiming to be black, when she has two white parents, in Refuse to Date Men who use Porn, even after Laurin was making that claim & berate black women on their group threads. Enabling Laurin allows her to continue asking vulnerable women for money. In this post it is easy to see that her story doesn’t make any sense as it would be unfathomable that a Safehouse would be located at such a public space where strangers have common access as they would at any real Alpaca Farm. Also I can say with considerable certainty that the only person Laurin Crosson has had at her house since about 2014 or perhaps early 2015 is a man named Niko

She was banned specifically for insisting that Trans-racial is racist & misogynistic and that that alone should be enough for those women to take serious actions with Laurin Crosson, not to mention all her victims.

I also received a phone call from another woman in Detroit area who was expressing a lot of concern about Linda Calder’s actions w/in a supposed RF group she established there. The woman, whom I have never met told me that Linda was trashing me continually to this group of women gathering in Detroit. She had grown deeply concerned about that kind of group dynamic & stated that she had really felt that it was deeply dysfunctional & not in line with RF. After she attended a RF retreat she stated that her feelings of concern were further confirmed since Linda Calder’s group was not at all a reflection of the group dynamic at the retreat. One of the primary purposes of this group is to go stand outside of strip clubs to tell girls they don’t have to strip for a living. This is also problematic for me as an exited woman since it is a moralistic action rather than a Radical action due to the fact that the ladies were not going there to provide actual resources to the girls if they wish to exit, only to tell them they don’t need to do it. There have also been many many issues from these women when other women have turned to them for help with all of the aggressive men on Refuse. So through & through every bit of action is really quite the anti-thesis of a Radicalized state of awareness.

As a Radical Woman myself I am not adverse to being in groups where members are still unpacking. I don’t hold expectations that every member will be at the same point in their decolonization process however these women, while claiming to be against porn, are refusing to take a stand for the Greater good if it is inconvenient to them, they take actions against Real True Radical Women, and they are doing damage by Posing as Radicals since women just finding RF might meet up with them first (as this woman who contacted me above did).

I feel it is imperative that any women of color in this group have full access to the truth about these women. Is Theresa El in this group? I need to let her know about this & it’s important to me to get this information to any other WOC in this group since I do not believe most WOC would want to be in a group with women who are not Anti Racist.

If you plan to confront this issue w/in the group setting I am more than willing to be present & assist as I am able but otherwise, I’m afraid this isn’t a group I would feel comfortable devoting any time & energy to in light of these members.

Best Laura Akers

Ann Me	Aug 14, 2018, 12:56 PM
to me

Hi Laura,

I’m sorry you’ve been through this and I am certainly sympathetic with you and have taken your side on your dispute with Lauren. The two women you named were not even on the call last night as I recall.

The problem is this- I am trying to organize a large national activist network, not just a small intimate support group  I am hoping for thousands of members and affiliated local groups. Many women have grievances and disputes  against other women, some like yours completely legitimate.  You are not the only women who feel betrayed by other women on the list (different ones.) However if I began to exclude or expel individual women based on grievances or concerns of other women regarding incidents outside the group – not based on their being disruptive to this particular group -we will never get this project off the ground.  So I really can’t support doing that.

If you want to be taken off the list, I understand and respect your decision.  Let me know.

In sisterhood and solidarity,

Ann

Laura Akers <@gmail.com>	Aug 14, 2018, 6:30 PM
to Ann

Hi Anne,

While I’m sure you mean well I wasn’t eliciting sympathy. My objective for messaging you though was to make you aware that there are members of this group already (the mailing list is relatively small at this time from what I can tell) who are not only not RF’s but Known racists.

If a group has members who don’t even embrace or comprehend the most basic essential tenants of RF & there is no group discussion to address that or ensure that everyone is in fact committed to doing the kind of work necessary when it comes to dismantling Patriarchy & All of it’s tenants, then you can gather thousands of women & it won’t lead to liberation.

 Where you are reducing the issue to a personal one which impacts me,  my position is one I am taking based on my understanding of Radical Feminism & the necessity that Radical Feminists be staunchly committed to dismantling Racism (their own & w/in society) as they are to those issues which impact them more personally (ie Sexism).

Yes remove me please as I do not want to be a member of a group (of primarily white women) who are accepting/embracing of Racists just to get numbers & don’t actually actively & openly work to dismantle racism wherever it rears it’s head.

There are other Anti Racists in this group & you can expect I will share these communications with them so they can make a choice based on your position.

Regards,

Laura Akers

Ann Me @gmail.com>	Aug 14, 2018, 6:55 PM
to me

 I have done nothing here that can remotely be considered racist. I have turned down other requests from white women to remove others from the group for various grievances concerning different individuals.  I’m doing no different here.

I’ve merely put together a list of women I know and women I don’t know who were attending a radical feminist conference and who expressed interest in this project. If we start throwing women out,  that’s the end of the group.  (LIE)

In my opinion the way to address racism or other forms of prejudice like anti lesbian prejudice or prejudice against immigrants for being immigrants or prejudice against Muslims, or prejudice against people who are poor or homeless,  is to develop strong written Principles of unity.  It’s not by throwing people out before this organization even begins.  If I didn’t think people could learn and be educated, I wouldn’t be a feminist or a revolutionary.

As I said, those two women were not even on the teleconference.

Laura Akers <@gmail.com>	Aug 14, 2018, 10:08 PM
to Ann

How in the world are you making what I said about you personally? Deflecting for sure & aren’t you Sam Esther? You are on my friends list so I’m a little bit confused as to why you are trying to distance yourself as though Linda Calder or Louis Kay are in that group of women you “don’t know” or as though you knew nothing about the Laurin Crosson call out. And It doesn’t matter if those women were on the call last night or not.  Why would a true Radfem want to “Develop Strong written Principles of Unity” with racist women? You don’t even need any proof of the racism. You only need to understand that those women support Laurin Crosson even after knowing that she claims to be black when she is biologically white (Trans-racial) which is both racist & sexist.

So it’s “Written Principals” and NOT real life action & accountability that are going to stop racism in Radical Feminism? Racism is not a bad habit undone by reading a set of principles or joining a group who never engages in real life Anti Racism. That’s a joke to me. NO

You asked me to join this group knowing I am a Native woman but instead of Demonstrating Anti Racism you will keep the racists in your group……..cause…..you want thousands of women to join & it’s not lost on me that Linda Calder & Louis Kay have access to thousands of women……which would be quite a good source for you to acquire those memberships.

And as you did above, you will claim I demanded you throw the women out when actually my suggestion was that you hold the women accountable in the group setting…..because addressing Racism IS Radical Feminism.

Ann M @gmail.com>	Aug 14, 2018, 11:46 PM
to me

I don’t know these two personally, they are just names on a list, two of 200 hundred women I friended on FB because I liked one thing they may have posted or said one time; they are two of 20 or more who expressed their interest in my idea at the WIM conference and signed a signup sheet I was passing around and left on the table. My contact has been minimal to nonexistent. It may be my lousy memory but I have no specific memory of them at all.

There may well be other women on the email list with racist or homophobic attitudes – I didn’t interview people to make sure they were free of all prejudices. That’s simply not workable.  If they or others have such attitudes that will come out in the context of the group and can be confronted at that time.

I know what you wrote about Laurin and have no reason to doubt that you are correct.  Of course I am completely opposed to the concept of “transracial.” But that’s all I know about the situation.  And I may have missed references to those two in what you wrote or simply don’t recall them.

They didn’t participate in the teleconference so not sure how interested they are and whether they will be involved in any real way. They are not in the subcommittee doing the editing either.  So far they have had zero role in drafting the principles.

It’s not up to me alone to hold people accountable, it’s up to the group that is still being formed to hold women accountable to a set of principles once we adopt them.    We are still in the process of adopting them.

Should these two or anyone else say or do anything racist in the context of the group I would of course say something.

I’m not sure what you expect me to do at this juncture. All this little group has done is comment on versions of the Statement I drafted (originally by myself) and have a two hour teleconference that only reviewed part of it.  I incorporated editing ideas from several people, those two weren’t among them. There’s been discussion about adding a paragraph on race, though it hasn’t been drafted yet.  That’s it.

These FB based connections are challenging. I never met you in person and that sometimes can make miscommunication more likely. I think that’s what’s happening here.

(At this point I was told by another RF that Ann Menache goes by another name on FB which I did not know & Ann never told me). She has been following me calling Laurin Crosson out on my FB page. She even comments on one of the primary threads. I felt certain at this point Ann was lying about not knowing who Linda Calder and Lois Kay were or that they supported Laurin Crosson. ) After the email exchanges I am certain Ann is a liar. You can see for yourself below. 

Laura Akers <>	Aug 15, 2018, 12:22 PM
to

Now I’m piecing it all together. Tracy Neal was a part of the secret group for the conference in Chicago & so were you. Tracy signed up to go because she knows Linda Calder in person & they agreed to go together prior to the Laurin Crosson situation. Tracy posted very specific information about the Laurin Crosson situation in that secret group. The organizers of that group had a similar response to yours here…..essentially saying “I will have nothing to do with it since it isn’t happening directly in this group”…. Both of the Black women who were scheduled to attend that conference were very upset by that response, the Anti Racists in the group spoke up to confront the moderators who were making very racist kinds of statements themselves & due to how that went in that group discussion with the moderators Both of the Black RF’s Refused to attend that conference. You were privy to ALL of that information.

If I remember correctly you even had actual exchanges with Tracy herself during that time.

Why are you now trying to “say” you don’t really know who these women are or that they were connected to Laurin Crosson I was privy to all conversations btwn Tracy and everyone else during that time because Tracy asked me to real all exchanges during that time so I feel pretty comfortable saying that you were in that group. Even if you did not know those women were directly involved, which seems unlikely to me….. your response doesn’t make sense to me still  because if you know that I was right to call Laurin Crosson out & I say to you….”hey, these women are bad news because of this this & this”…..it seems at the very least you would have expressed a willingness to explore way to address this in the group setting in light of finding out that you have members who are still defending Laurin Crosson in your group……

.Also You also witnessed the exchanges in that group & those Black women leaving even after they had paid to attend. You KNOW that the reason why those Black women left is because the moderators stated that they didn’t want to address the issue since the members did not engage in the actual racism & silencing in their group…..and you were privy to all of the conversations about how these very type of responses w/in RF groups is preventing a unification btwn white women and Radical Women of Color…….YET you offered the EXACT same response here.

Anne it’s simply not enough to say “I am opposed to these things”. If you are opposed to something you don’t align yourself with individuals who engage in the very acts you claim to be “opposed” to in the name of “educating them”. That is the exact sentiment of Linda Calder & Louis Kay…it’s what they have told the Many Many women who asked them to ban abusive men from the group….. They said, No we hope to “educate them”, No “if we ban them we can’t help them”.

And when it comes to these women it isn’t just the Laurin Crosson incident. These women are KNOWN to be infiltrators of the RF circles. Just last night YET ANOTHER woman speaking up about their homophobic Anti Woman…Pro Patriarchy practices. MANY MANY women have been speaking out about these moderators of Refuse for a long time now. Just because you may have met them….Linda Calder/Louis Kay in person at the conference….And did not meet me in person…doesn’t mean you cannot gain a clear picture….to me that is yet another excuse. I am communicating very clearly & you are also communicating very clearly.

There is really nothing more to say. You have stated your position and I understand it all too well.

Laura Akers <>	Aug 15, 2018, 12:41 PM
to Ann

I wanted to say & forgot to mention in my final email……These are women with significant influence, not single individuals. When you align yourself with women who have influence…like it or not… that is a political statement in & of itself.

Ann M <@gmail.com>
Aug 15, 2018, 10:42 PM
to meI found and reread Tracy’s posts in the secret WIMCON group. She mentioned the incident with Laurin but no mention of the two women you named Linda andSent from my iPhone

Ann Mena <@>	Aug 15, 2018, 11:26 PM
to me

I pressed the send button too soon.

There was no mention of Linda and Louis in Tracy’s posts in the WIMCON

 page . There was some reference to Laurin in Tracy’s posts which I responded to briefly but a lot of the discussion moved onto planning a protest and the problems generally for women of color in the women’s movement.  Yes, there was an announcement at the Conference of two Black women who decided at the last minute not to attend. The reasons were not made completely clear to me and to the other conference participants.only that they were unhappy that the Conference was mostly (about 80%) white and they wanted to have gotten in on the ground floor in the planning. Neither Laurin, Linda or Louis were mentioned as having anything to do with this.   I was not in the small group involved in the planning – I only helped with inviting some people and organizing one workshop. So I was not “in the know.”

If these two women are so powerful they have certainly been low profile on our little group.  They haven’t stood out at all or contributed anything that I can recall.

Again I have no clue of what you expect me to do to these silent inactive members on our list.  You said you didn’t want me to expel them which I won’t do even if I had the power to do so,  so what then?

The hostility you are expressing towards me seems a bit misplaced. You can believe what you want but I’ve done nothing to deserve this. I have nothing to do with Laurin’s shenanigans. Nor do I have any meaningful personal connection with women who supported her. All I am doing is trying to coalesce a radical feminist organization. If these two women are as racist as you say they are, they will expose themselves in the group – but I think they’d have to get more involved with it in order to do so.  From the looks of it they are more likely to fade into the woodwork.

Laura Akers	Aug 16, 2018, 4:44 PM
to Ann, bcc: Sherri, bcc: Theresa

Ann, Now I am remembering….Tracy was not Allowed to include those women’s names, though she wanted to, because the organizer forced her to take them out. She refused to post Tracy’s statement in it’s original form because she was unwilling to directly confront racism among group members scheduled to attend the conference. But, Both Tracy and the other Black woman, Beverly, stated very clearly that the reason they were not attending was due to the racism w/in the WIMCON group itself. As I stated in my prior email though that is irrelevant whether you knew about their involvement prior to me emailing you or not because once I emailed you to make you aware of their involvement….You now know of their involvement since I went into considerable detail.

You are expressing a lot of upset about my emails. I was consciously aware that you began imposing White Social Standards from your very first email response back to me…and that I was breaking those even by asking you to address racist members in the first place…but most especially, for not just quietly accepting your unwillingness to address the situation on any level….& your reasons given…..

You are taking this all personally but in reality my refusal to focus on/agree to/tend to your expectations or emotions in the ways you expect me to isn’t personal against you specifically. I would respond the same to any white person pressing me to acquiesce to White Social Standards, which are Patriarchal, Racist, Hierarchical, Misogynistic etc….. For me this is a political action….It is my air & breath, my entire existence. I am a Radical Decolonizing Native woman & Anti Racist every day, every hour, every moment. And here you are labeling me as Hostile because you cannot accept my refusal to be bound or to cede my freedom so you may maintain privilege.

And perhaps you are not consciously aware of this……

These conversations are laborious for me & all Natives/Indigenous humans. When we engage in them, we are only doing so because we have considered that the white person may not be consciously aware of the ways they are engaging in/invoking white privilege……. I am not holding my breath but maybe one day, instead of accusing me of hostility, you will consider what I just said in this sentence……..

Laura Akers <@gmail.com>	Aug 16, 2018, 4:50 PM
to

And btw Laurin Crosson isn’t engaging in Shenanigans…..She is engaging in Racist, Misogynistic, Narcissistic behaviors which harm others….my particular concern & what motivated me to call her out is that many of her victims are vulnerable women.

After this exchange some time passed. I happened to see a RF, Bev, posting about Ann’s group in one of the groups I belong to so I touched base with her about what I had experienced with Ann. We united with Tracy & some other women to discuss.  We realized during this process that Ann was still on Tracy’s fb friends list. Tracy decided at that point that she wanted to unfriend her but try to speak to her first. Here is that conversation:

At this point Tracy removed Ann from her FB friends. We continued to discuss the issue as a group & formulated an email. Here is what we sent together to the group:

To All Members of FIST

Inbox

x

Laura Akers <>	Wed, Sep 19, 11:49 PM (3 days ago)

OUR GROUP EMAIL TO F.I.S.T.

Greetings,

Truly Radical Feminist groups should be a safe haven for women who are already Radical Feminist, which means having a solid commitment from all members and the group founder to ensure the group is safe and not hostile for multiply oppressed women joining. Lack of safety is why we are writing, so members know what is going on and can participate in solving this issue.

We ask the following questions to Ann and the rest of the group, who may not be aware of the dismissal of two women in regard to the known racism of some group members, and we ask for the intention of the group moving forward:

*Is it your intention to hold members accountable for action inside and outside the group, and work on behalf of the multiply oppressed to create a safe and nurturing environment for all women?

*If so, why were a Black woman & a Native woman dismissed when concerns about racist members of the group were raised, in favor of “numbers”?

*Why was a non Radical Feminist woman of color brought in to create guidance on racism, when her perspective may not be in line with Radical Feminism, in a purported radical feminist group, when members who are Radical Feminist had expressed interest in this task via reaching out to Ann with their concerns?

Because the end of the yet undiscussed FIST statement referring to the Left as possible allies and then the video promoted by Ann that is supposedly about Radical Feminism at the Leftist organization “Old and New” event, which included offensive Steve Bloom on the panel, we are also concerned that some in the group do want the group to ally with the Left and are actually Leftists rather than Radical Feminists. The Left has a long history of being incredibly female-hating as well as having tried to recruit us. (The best part of Leftist politics are already in Radical Feminism.)  Liberal feminists who are Leftists and disgusted with the Left promoting female impersonators and women identifying as men (and genuflecting that they are somehow oppressed when they are our oppressors) are not Radical Feminists.

So we have to ask: to what degree is this group committed to the idea of a “New Left”, which includes working with men? Will this be an integral part of this group and will members be recruited to “Old and New”?  (Again, this is not Radical Feminism),

Statement of experience by Laura Akers and Tracy Neal:

My name is Laura Akers. I was asked to join Old & New by a woman whom I knew as Sam Esther on Facebook. It seemed Sam really wanted me to join because she asked me if I had joined several times. It was described to me as an Anti Racist group looking to ensure that Women of Color & Radical Feminists were placed in primary leadership roles. I thought Ann asked me specifically because I am Native and a Radical Feminist. Awhile later I received an email invite to join FIST, a Radical Feminist group & joined that group as well.

Just prior to the first teleconference for the FIST  I happened to glance at the email list of members and noticed that Linda Calder & Lois Kay are both on the members list. Having had a very recent & ongoing experience with those women, which began when I called out a woman named Laurin Crosson, I felt immediately concerned.

Laurin Crosson is a white woman who had been claiming to be half Black.  She also claims to have been continually racially profiled by police due to her skin color. She was also engaging in fraudulent fund-raising within RF circles. You may find all of the details on Laurin Crosson on this page along with a lot of evidence of her claims to be black & racially profiled. https://wordpress.com/view/rockstarrministrieslaurincrosson.wordpress.com ).

The two women mentioned above were involved with Laurin Crosson because they promoted her in their group & gave her a big platform. Laurin was often on the threads in their group, perhaps that is still the case, though we don’t know because we removed ourselves from that group during that time. Both Lois Kay & Linda Calder were made aware that Laurin was claiming to be black & were both provided with these screenshots. They continued to support Laurin Crosson. Linda Calder has actively worked to defame & smear those of us who called Laurin Crosson out.

Our position, is the Radical Feminist one. There is no such thing as Trans-Racial. A white woman who claims to be Black is engaging in Racist & Misogynistic behaviors which harm Black women. The act of slipping into an identity of a Black woman when & where it suits one’s fancy And also Slipping back out of it (such as Laurin did around all of her church friends), as though “being a Black woman” is a costume, is misogynistic because it is extreme objectification of Black women. It is Racist because Black women are not able to do the same themselves.

Claiming to be Black while white It is an act of serious entitlement & privilege. It is racist because a white person does not ever have to bear the real life daily ramifications & hardships of racism or even consider them.

Ann claimed she doesn’t even know who these women are yet she never even asked me a single question or expressed a shred of interest in understanding what they had done.

Ann took the positions that because the racism didn’t happen in her actual group itself that she feels no responsibility to address it on any level. She argued that she didn’t believe in kicking out racists because she felt that people can learn. That left me feeling deeply concerned. If a trans-activist joined the group & someone informed her of it would Ann have been making these same arguments? Would she contend that we have to be willing to work with Trans Activists, to educate them within Radical Feminist groups? Would she be willing to disregard the discomfort, upset or even danger that might pose to some RF’s?

What is the difference between someone who supports Trans-gender and someone who supports Trans-racial?

Ann argued other points like she was just forming this group & didn’t want to kick anyone out since she is trying to get large numbers of women & that she didn’t even know if the women had any intention of participating, that they did not attend the first teleconference. Also she stated both to me & to Tracy that it wasn’t her decision alone to kick them out, though she never offered to present the circumstance to everyone else with decision making power. It was clear to me that Ann was making the decision herself, to keep them on the list, to remove me & later to disallow Tracy Neal to join the group at all. Has Ann approached any of you about this incident?

Ann was completely unconcerned that I was leaving the group even though she knows that I am a real Radical Feminist & a Native woman as well.

***

Hello I am Tracy Neal. I approached Ann to express my concerns about Linda Calder & Louis Kay since I personally experienced their racism during the Laurin Crosson call out. When I spoke to Ann I requested to be added to this group. Ann’s only response to me was to reiterate the same points she argued to Laura Akers. Ann refused to share information with me about how I may go about joining the group. It didn’t make sense to me because while Ann argued that it wasn’t her decision to kick group members out she was making an executive decision to deny me membership. Have any of you been approached by Ann regarding my request to join? Is this a concern to any of you that a Black Radical Feminist has been denied membership into this group & silenced?

From our perspective this kind of response & course of action-The Keeping of Racists & Ousting of Native/Black women who refuse to accept Racism within Radical Feminist groups is Racist in & of itself.

A Radical Feminist claiming to Center Women yet committing herself Only to Centering of White Women or Only women of color who Agree to never go against the White Social Standards is not a Radical Feminist at all. Radical Feminist Women of Color have gone through immense trials to arrive here. They should be met with Respite & a welcoming embrace not with More Racism.

While Ann stated that she wanted to form an Anti Racist policy, this whole idea of including individuals who have made it clear that they aren’t interested & have no intention of working on their own racism in the name of “educating them” is beyond harmful.  Ann puts Everyone at risk allowing members who feel Trans-Racial is acceptable/not a real problem to remain in the group. She also damages Radical Feminist movement by Holding Native/Black Radical Feminists to White Social Standards that they do not wish to be held to & by refusing to unpack on the personal level. No amount of policy writing is sufficient if you refuse to actually BE Anti Racist.

If Ann would have stated “Let me contact these women to see if they plan to participate & then take it to other founding members of the group so we can sort out a way forward.” that would have been a reasonable starting point. It was her utter disinterest & refusal that is suspect.

***

Bev: Ann asked me to join FIST and I’ve spent hours both privately on the phone and in writing making suggestions to make the FIST statement as true to Radical Feminism as possible. So I was surprised and upset to recently find out from Laura and Tracy about how two racists (and I do not use that term casually) are allowed to be in the group and basically the only Black and Native women told to leave or not be allowed to join if they don’t like it. This is not Radical Feminism. (When I was worried in August about some of the members I knew not being Radical Feminists, I was also basically told to leave if I didn’t like it.)

The priority should be the safety of the most oppressed Radical Feminists and not to try to get numbers or hope racists will change. The group should be ONLY Radical Feminists, which racists are not, and if they want to change to become Radical Feminists, meaning they have stopped being racist and try to fix the harm they have done, they could come possibly come back. Otherwise, the group will be a segregated group and end up with the most privileged women who are not Radical Feminists.

This also was my concern about not seeing any members who I knew to be class-oppressed even though we are the majority of Radical Feminists. Classism wasn’t even included on the list of oppressions until I brought it up. So the group seems also to be segregated class-wise, which will also make it feel less safe for class oppressed Radical Feminists to join.

There are the statements about trying to do outreach, but driving away Tracy and Laura makes that not seem honest. And again, why invite someone who is not a Radical Feminist to make a statement about racism when there are so many Radical Feminists of Color not welcome or invited to the group?  Ann adamantly not wanting the group to be international still does not make sense to me, considering having members from other countries would increase class-oppressed members and give more age diversity.

I hate to be suspicious, but I’m concerned that this group is actually designed to recruit for Leftist groups like the Old and New. At the very least, something has to be done about what’s happened to make this be truly Radical Feminist.

I’m also worry that since I’m guessing no members know about how Tracy and Laura were treated, that there are others unjust things that have happened to members that we don’t know about.

So our goal is to bring this to the entire group so we all can discuss it, with nothing behind closed doors.

Signed,

Laura Akers

Tracy Neal

Bev Jo

Leslene Della-Madre

Christina Adams

Marjorie Steakley

Before I get into the rest of the correspondence I will just share these recent fb exchanges btwn Laurin Crosson & Linda Calder.  Also here is a post made by Lois Kay (Lois is Lucita) where she & Laurin comment on the post & Linda Calder likes the post. 

Much of the proof below was provided to the FIST (Radical Feminist Network) Group Members via email. 

Laura Akers	10:19 PM (10 minutes ago)

And here she is again just two days ago:

Laura Akers	10:08 PM (22 minutes ago)

I had been looking for this. Someone shared it with me a few weeks ago because they saw it posted on Linda Calder’s FB page. Linda Calder posting for Laurin Crosson. As you will see Linda Liked the Post as well.

Linda was referring to those of us who called Laurin Crosson’s fraud out here. I also am a Survivor but she kept disregarding that & just kept saying I was just hating on a Survivor.

Here is Proof that Lois Kay refused to take any real stand against Laurin Crosson. She went on to show full support for Laurin Crosson by standing by Kelly Crockett, Linda Calder, Megan Mackin and others who pledged support for & defended Laurin even after having access to all of the information we compiled on her.

I am only just including one ss of the original post from my timeline. Everything from that post is shown below for you to read:

I met a woman named Laurin Crosson Rockstarr Ministries on FB not even a year ago now. She was on Radical Feminist friend’s lists & in Refuse to Date Men who Use Porn group, stating she is an exited woman who supports Nordic Model so I friended her. I am an exited woman myself & Pro Nordic Model.

When I met Laurin I had no idea that she is Trans-Racial or anything else I found out about her this past week.

I have created a word document with Loads of Proof. Please PM me if you want me to share this with you. Yesterday Kelly Crockett sent me a friend request. I did not accept it but I entered a PM with her. I am sharing this below. Kelly’s sole intent for sending me a friend request was to shame me & bully me in an effort to stop me from relating Facts about Laurin that I discovered. Notice that I accept full responsibility for my own choices, I indicate to Kelly that I stand behind what I say & do. I ask Kelly to do the same, to not impose her own choices onto me, I try instead to redirect her to lay out her position regarding Laurin’s behaviors & choices but she keeps on attacking me. I extended an opportunity to Kelly to provide evidence of what she is claiming about me but she only just keeps making the claims without ever substantiating any of her accusations against me.

Kelly never entered any conversation with me about the FACTS. She never asked me a single question aside from why I was being a bully & unkind. In otherwords she did not contact me with an intention to ensure that All the women involved are protected to the highest degree. From her statement I am deducing that Kelly intends to continue giving Laurin Crosson a platform in Refuse To Date Men who Use Porn. The moderators for that group have been provided with the document two days ago where I organized all of the links & screenshot proof so they can all see for themselves. If they elect to continue giving Laurin Crosson a platform they do so having looked over this document.

I work to understand the character of every woman I come in contact with. Being an exited woman myself, an openly exited woman & having had a substantial amount of time to heal, 13 years now, I am qualified to understand every facet of this particular situation, including the reason why this group of survivors are resistant to Truth Telling that may alter the circumstances of individual women, as well as the presence of dysfunctional social & relational patterns which are pervasive in some survivor groups & more predominantly w/in Religious groups of women. In my opinion, Religion is Patriarchal & Hierarchical so while not impossible, it is much more difficult to gain tools of healing through Religion. I believe this is a strong factor in the case of this particular group of survivors.

That said, even though I understand the cycles of abuse & the reasons why they continue or why some women struggle to heal or move away from them, I won’t stand behind, defend or turn a blind eye to destructive or dysfunctional behaviors that require other women experience or be subjected to violations. I do not enable or believe that it’s healing & constructive to keep things in the dark that should be in the light.

It is my right to determine How & When to use my own Voice. I do not demand other women to Use their Voice according to My Moral Compass & I expect the same respect from women who want to interact with me. If they do not extend that, I don’t take it personally, but I will not continue to interact with them. I don’t participate in Gangs! And I I am likely to out anyone engaging in or supporting deception, bullying or dysfunctional, dangerous or illegal behavior, racism, white privilege, sexism, misogyny, hierarchy or any other harmful relational dynamic. In otherwords, Don’t expect me to Lie or Kept Quiet for you or your friend’s convenience.

My personal effort, commitment & intention is Liberation. That is my journey & calling as a human being And as an Exited Woman. Also my personal commitment to Sisters is a commitment to the Greater Good. I don’t feel obligated to protect individual women from the ramifications or natural consequences of their own choices. The Greater Good is what is the Highest for the Largest Number of Women. In this particular instance, I believe that the Greater Good will be served by sharing information I learned about Laurin Crosson & subsequently other women who are her friends, including Kelly Crockett, who has a very extensive friend list of Radical Feminist, seems to be presenting herself as a Radical Feminst & is giving Laurin Crosson a platform in Refuse to Date Men who use Porn group.

I feel a higher level of protection over women in the RF community because many of you are working on Decolonizing & Dismantling in Real Ways, as well as promoting Real solutions for women to experience Liberation in this climate. RF’s are experiencing a lot of ramifications due to advocacy surrounding Trans Politics. I believe that RF’s collectively do Not want Trans people moving about freely & covertly w/in their circles. Also true RF’s are Anti Racist as well & committed to calling out white privilege. Trans Racial poses issues on both of those fronts.

When I learned that Laurin Crosson is trans-racial I worked to proceed in a responsible manner however I felt & still feel that RF’s should be privy to this information, as well as other groups of women who are becoming aware of Laurin’s organization Rockstarr Ministries especially after my experience with her friends. I submitted this document to a Radical Feminist moderator in the group Refuse to Date Men Who Use Porn once I had verified that other women are also aware of the concerns I hold.

After the information was passed on to the other moderators Kelly Crockett approached me. She called me names & claimed the things I shared are untrue. I had no idea that Kelly Crockett was personal friends with Laurin Crosson until that moment that she contacted me. It seems Kelly Crockett claims to be a Radical Feminist. I am including our PM below in light of the fact that many RF’s associate with her.

The information will speak for itself but I want to elaborate a bit. Through this experience what I am struggling with the most is the use of the word Sister to promote/maintain codependent & enabling relationships. Promote is even a mild word for what is happening. It is more like To Demand. For those who read the things I am sharing, notice that the tactic being used on me & the insistence that I uplift & protect a Sister (Laurin Crosson).

What is not said outright is 1.) I am Excluded from the same protection. 2.) That other exited women who experience violation & also want to speak up about it are excluded from the same protection 3.) That Zero attention will be given to the FACTS… they are entirely ignored, rational questions are never answered. Nothing is ever accounted for 4.) Name Calling & accusations are utilized on women who want things like Truth Telling, Personal Accountability, Transparency, Integrity, Etc, to be the Foundation & Cornerstone of Survivor Leadership & Advocacy. Women who call out others who’s focus is on Capitalization often at the expense of other women, Personal Fame or Personal Gain will be Attacked & Bullied mercilessly and lastly 5.) that Anyone who may be being violated, deceived or victimized by a “Survivor Sister” is Excluded from the same protection including non exited women.

Kelly Crockett’s position conflicts with mine. I blocked her after this exchange. The moderators in Refuse To Date Men who Use Porn have received substantial proof that in fact Laurin’s parents are both White therefore Laurin is White. Laurin stating she has been racially profiled by police and continually claiming she experiences racial oppression is just outrageous.

Additionally Laurin has not been a registered business for some years now & has been lying to potential donors & donors all along.

Again if you want to see this document please just send me a PM. I have sought council from numerous RF’s and Exited women whom I trust in this matter & feel this is the proper course for all of those reasons I have laid out here & w/in that document.

Here is the Kelly Crockett Conversation:

Me: Kelly you are friends with Laurin right?

Yes.
okay so why are you friending me
now

Kelly: Oh, I just wanted to message you and ask you to stop. Many of the things you are saying are untrue, and all of it is unkind and unnecessary.

I don’t say things that are not true
what exactly have I said that is not true
?

I have been to the safehouse. I have met her clients.

She literally lives on a shoestring. I have seen her cupboards. Bare most of the time.

Me: Kelly if you want to have any conversation with me you will NOT accuse me of thing since you do not have proof of what you are saying
What I am hearing you say is you feel that because Laurin lives on a shoestring budget that no one should say the truth about her
Am I hearing you correctly?
I am staring at about SIX Mutual Friends btwn you & I who Disagree that I am being mean or unkind
Kelly I have lost respect for you because you approached me as though I am a Liar when I have provided TONS of evidence to substantiate my concerns Including Other women stating that the are aware of my concerns already & Know that those are valid.
I intent to let my Radical Feminist friends know you are messaging me asking me to Stop TRUTH TELLING
THU 11:13PM

Kelly: I just said that my direct experience is different than what you are saying.

It seems you are bullying Laurin. I wonder why?

Me: I am grateful that messaging allows one to scroll back & everyone to know exactly what was said. So are you saying that you did not say to me that ” Many of the things you are saying are untrue”?
Kelly, you seem to lack integrity. You are denying that you Called me a Liar. If you have proof that I am a liar then please by all means show it to me
What have I said that is untrue? You have a lot of Radical Feminist friends. Are you a Radical Feminist? If you did not know it in the past you now know that Laurin claims to be black but she has white parents. That’s Trans Racial. Laurin knows fully well that not only do most people find that unacceptable but Radical Feminist do not allow Trans people into their circles. Don’t you know that? You keep accusing me of doing something wrong here & are defending Laurin & that is your right to be friends with Laurin & hold any personal concerns for her well being but I am not under any obligations to do the same. Laurin is a liar for one. She is 100% All White…Prove me Wrong. Rockstarr Ministries is conducting business illegally…..Prove Me Wrong. I’ll Wait……….
?
1
Your intention is to claim I am spreading untruths, a bully, unkind, that my words are unnecessary…… those are YOUR words & claims.

You are not proceeding in good faith to get to the bottom of why Laurin claims to be Black, why Laurin continuously claims to have a non profit business license which she hasn’t had since 2015 yet is still fundraising under that premise & collecting women’s social security information under that premise, why there are No Black Women in survivor circles testifying thanks to Laurin they were rescued from the life…out of 75 women in 3 yrs….or was it 65 in two years? Where are those women?

Do you have proof that Black women knowingly & willingly agreed to allow a Trans racial woman, who claims she is racially profiled by police & experiencing racism from others, to rescue them at one of the most vulnerable points in their life?

If you consider realizing & then revealing a person claiming to be a Legal Nonprofit Business is in fact NOT & providing proof to be bullying….well, that’s a super insane position in my book. Since when is Raising legitimate concerns Bullying?

You are calling me a bully yet expressing ZERO concern for Black women who may feel very violated that they were not informed of Laurin being Trans Racial. ZERO concern for the woman who Laurin insisted she must collect her social security information from Knowing she was not even a legal business. ZERO concern for Donors who wish to give to reputable legal businesses who agree to be accountable to the State regulations, the IRS, and to strive for professional business practices & accountability across the board. ZERO concern for a young survivor woman who Laurin & her friends have publicly bullied. ZERO concern that Laurin purchases drugs with Donor money. ZERO concern that Laurin divulges personal information of survivors who trusted her to her friends while demanding No One EVER tell that she has no rescues at her House. I could go on & on here Point being Your ONLY concern seems to be in aggressing on me to get me to be quiet after I provided Loads of Evidence that this Laurin woman need intervention including statements from other survivors who said the same.

I spoke with about 8 survivors privately thus far as well as a number of other women whom I trust, some of whom have known Laurin & they all expressed deep concerns, believe this is unacceptable, that she is in poor mental health & Almost ALL of the women stating outright they believe Laurin’s activities & stories are highly suspect & unacceptable.

If you have no concerns for any of what I mentioned above then We are Done!
?
1
5:05AM

Kelly: Why are you doing this?

It is hard enough to live in a man’s world without women tearing other women down.

Let’s lift our sisters up. Please.

Me: Kelly, SISTERS is the KEY WORD…..NOT SISTER. You messaging me Attacking me, NEVER ONCE even Acknowledging the Truth of things I have Learned Only because Laurin is a suspicious character which Many can see a fucking mile away.. is doing NOTHING but Further Proving What I & others have said about Laurin & Her Friends are BULLIES.
I have already answered that question FULLY & Thoroughly. It’s not my problem if you feel stressed out over the fact that your friend is being outed. The only question you need to be asking is why would Laurin say & do those things. And Am I willing to trample on other women because Laurin is my friend. Women are not going to take it well that you are attacking me instead of trying to get your friend help & moving her out of circles of women she may be preying on
And women are also not going to take that well that You support Trans Racial

Kelly: Laura, what I’m seeing here is a desire for conflict.

I’m not playing. Sorry.

Laura:
Sane Women that is Kelly! I am a survivor. I have fought Tooth & Nail to heal. If you want to stay stuck in that co dependent enabling kind of relationship mode that is your choice but GTFO of here with your moral superiority. #SilenceIsConsent

Comments on this thread: 

Lucita Bosque is Lois Kay. Also Sam Esther is Ann. Linda Calder also comments here.

This was my first ever communication with Linda Calder. We had one pm conversation which involved me passing her the information about Laurin Crosson. This is now compiled here on this site as well on the other Blog page. You may view everything about Laurin Crosson there. Megan Mackin, who was also a moderator on Refuse To Date Men who Use Porn & the woman I contacted to notify all of the other moderators since I knew her & thought she was an RF at the time,  told me that she had opened the conversation with the MODs of Refuse. I also explained that to Linda in the PM & showed her the ss of Megan stating that. She agreed that it was undeniable Megan had told me that. Megan ended up defending Laurin Crosson repeatedly insisting that even though Laurin Crosson herself stated that the white man was her father that Laurin’s mom might have had an affair with a black man & that it was up to us to prove that she didn’t. 

Lucita Bosque Laura – this seems disengenuous at best, especially as how you stated you let the Refuse moderation team know about whatever conflict you two are having. That is simply not true.

– I’ve never heard from you about this, and I’m the co-admin of Refuse.

I know Kelly personally, and very well, and am confident she is a woman of integrity, and has sound feminist analysis.

I cannot speak to & never would defend this trans-racial issue, because I think “trans” anything is stupid & delusional.

But whatever conversation went down between you all, I believe that Kelly’s intentions are good.

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Laura Akers Lucita Bosque What sounds disengenous at best? If you did not get the document then I am happy to send it to you. I will do that now. But I trusted the moderator I passed it to to give it to ya’ll since she said she would pass it on

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Lucita BosqueLaura Akers I did not receive anything.

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Lucita Bosque To whom did you originally send it?

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Laura Akers At Any point Kelly Crockett could have asked me for proof

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Izzi Creo Did anyone find who they are organized with yet? Or are we still pretending all these nebulous activities are crappy individuals at work?

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Ginny Brown When women offer documentation to justify difficult matters they’re raising, they deserve us to read it and respond to that as the substantive matter, rather than picking on small matters which are likely beyond their control in order to judge their motives.

Laura Akers Lucita Bosque Now that you are here, Have the document FOR SURE & are stating that you are Not down with Trans Racial & that you agree Laurin is White do you plan to take any actions in Refuse To Date Men who Use Porn in light of the fact that she is often in there sharing stories & connecting with women, some of whom end up donating to her cause?

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Lucita Bosque What “action” do you desire?

That I join the radfem mob mentality, and ostracize a woman for not being perfect?

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Laura Akers Lucita Bosque I simply asked you if you plan to take action. So now you are claiming I am shitstirring, creating drama & engaging in radfem mob mentality. WOW

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Laura Akers All while going on & on about how good your friend Kelly is in a PM defending her calling me a liar & a bully w/out ever asking me a single question as though my humanity bears no importance compared to anyone else’s.

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Lucita Bosque You are now intentionally twisting my words and manipulating – and I engaged with you in good faith.

This is where I say good night

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Lucita Bosque So high school…

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Simone Andrea This is the opposite of high school. This is about vulnerable women being preyed upon. If you disagree with Laura despite all the evidence that’s one thing, but to dismiss her extremely well considered concern for survivor welfare is spurious.

…

Now I will begin to post all of the email responses to our initial email to the group members. I have removed email addresses of members. 

Theresa El-Amin	Thu, Sep 20, 1:48 AM (2 days ago)
to me,

Dear Laura,

Not sure what you’re trying to accomplish. When we spoke about the situation, I suggested you participate in FIST and look towards transformation. Your approach is destructive. I don’t understand why you and the other signers don’t form your own group rather than attacking FIST a group in formation.

The second conference call is Friday. I plan to be on it. I trust we will discuss what you and others have submitted in the context of what the remedy should be.

I have no interest in wrangling with you over wide-ranging criticisms about Old and New and individuals I don’t know.

You look white and have passed as white. I find that a bit dishonest given your claim to be Choctaw. Nobody’s perfect.

Look forward to a resolution that ends the acrimony and begins some principled discussion of forming a diverse group of radical feminists fighting against patriarchy and other systems of oppression.

I am not interested in participating in  personal vendettas. Look forward to resolving this on Friday evening during the conference call.

Truly,

Theresa El-Amin

Georgia

K Scarbrough	Thu, Sep 20, 9:15 AM (2 days ago)
to

I am not quite sure what to make of these serious accusations.  But I do note that Laura Akers (who I’ve never met) was among the original group of women coming together to form FIST so I think I must have added her to the google group when it was formed.  However, it is true she is not a member of the google group now, and she claims that Ann M. removed her.  If Ann did this I’d like an explanation.

I don’t understand much of the accusations of racism outlined without much detail in the letters below but I do regard trans racial to be exactly equivalent to transgender.  I was very glad Bev Jo raised the issue of class.

I tend to think that membership in this group should depend on one’s behavior in this group.

Kathy Scarbrough

Laura Akers <>	Thu, Sep 20, 9:16 AM (2 days ago)
to

Theresa,

 I remember a different conversation between you & I. You told me that you were going to contact Tracy Neal, stating that investigating was important in order to get to the bottom of the situation. I provided you her number but you never called her. She also contacted you & you never called her back. When we spoke I noticed that when you were reading over the email exchange btwn Ann & I you only wanted to read Ann’s part. I had to say but “Theresa you have to read my part to” though you did say to me “I have a problem with the fact that you are removed from the group, I feel you should be in it”…which was why you asked for Tracy Neal’s number, to investigate. Why did you never call Tracy Neal or respond to her phone call? It seems if you were actually interested in understanding the situation that you definitely would have contacted her to get her perspective since she is a Black woman.

Also I have an email from you stating that you love Steve Bloom & want him to lead Old & New (or something to that effect). I’m not sure which “people” from Old and New you are referring to here but the only person we mentioned is Steve Bloom & he is someone that you definitely know.

Your response here is a prime example of the kinds of concerns we expressed in our email about Non-Radical Feminists being permitted into a Radical Feminist group. You told me that you have recently had some trouble with some TIMS so that is your point of connection to RF’s but you are a liberal feminist & Ann’s friend from a socialist group which you both got kicked out of. You are not a Radical Feminist therefore you should not be in a Radical Feminist group.

My skin color has nothing to do with other people who claim to be Radical Feminist engaging in Racism & White Fragility.   Why are you defending Racist anyway Theresa? Do you have a different belief about Trans-Racial than the belief all of us who wrote this email hold, that it is Racist and Misogynistic? I feel our email is very clear about the concern being Racism & it’s detriments.

Both you & Ann have attempted to make this a personal thing about me. You had access to the email where I explained to Ann that this is not about me & my experience with these particular women outside of my first-hand knowledge that these women defended a Trans-Racial and defamed RF’s who spoke out about her frauds & my deep concerns about having women like that in an RF group. That seems like a diversion tactic rather than an effort to understand or ensure that all women in the group are BEING Anti Racist.

You have a personal goal of working with Racists based on your own belief that people will change if you just work with them enough, so that leads to your particular vision of what a group looks like. My vision as a Radical Feminist for a RF group is different. RF groups should hold very high standards of members when it comes to something like Racism especially since our movement has continually been compromised by it. Being Anti Racist and willing to unpack personal racism is an imperative & Ann did not show any willingness in that area.

Laura

Laura Akers <	Thu, Sep 20, 9:27 AM (2 days ago)
to k

Thank you K. So if someone is a Trans Activist outside of the group but not in it you are fine with that then?

K Scarbrough	Thu, Sep 20, 9:28 AM (2 days ago)
to me

That sounds unlikely.  We do want to be careful but it is possible to take things too far.

Kathy Scarbrough

Theresa El-Amin	Thu, Sep 20, 9:31 AM (2 days ago)
to

I hope I can be simply added to the FIST Google Group. Who is facilitating the call on Friday evening. Could the facilitators please post an agenda for discussion and approval today? Clearly the issues raised by Laura Akers need to be addressed as a priority.

Thank you.

Laura Akers <	Thu, Sep 20, 9:36 AM (2 days ago)
to k

If they are the same & someone is defending a Trans-Racial (no such thing) then care should be taken no? If Trans Racialism is no biggie to someone then it seems they would feel similarly about Trans Gender. Laurin Crosson is also pro Trans Gender. I imagine her friends are as well.

Laura

Laura Akers <>	Thu, Sep 20, 10:26 AM (2 days ago)
to

What we are interested in here is understand FIST Formal Position, in writing, regarding the Questions we have asked. We have already gone to a lot of effort & labor to lay out the Radical Feminist position, which all of us who signed our name to the email maintain, as well as to provide enough details without overwhelming anyone to substantiate our concerns.

Laura

Tracy Neal	Thu, Sep 20, 12:12 PM (2 days ago)
to

Theresa,

I am hopeful that F.I.S.T. will make a statement in writing stating that this organization does not give safe harbor to racist women, posing as radical feminists.  I hope a plan of action is instated to deal with the inevitable racism that black radical feminists will face, seeing that this organization wants to recruit black women.I am shocked that you would use Laura’s skin color to deem her dishonest.  At the very least your words to her are colorist, at the most, they are racist.  This woman is honest and lives and honest life.  I had the honor of spending time with her in the Choctaw Nation because of her membership.  It’s ugly, deflection to try to discuss everything and everybody but these racist women up in here.

I am curious to know what this organization’s goal is in recruiting black women into a space that holds racist women and has no plan of action in eliminating racism when it is exercised on black women.  Is this organization following the blueprint of mega churches, in the black community; churches full of vulnerable, black women that are not allowed to address the black male violence going on against them, having to be silent and  “Submissive” to male authority, while the churches bring in dollars that black women will never see?  What is the point of not adding me, a black woman, a radical feminist to this group?  What was your point in not returning my call Teresa, after I left you a voicemail about the racist women on this list/group?  Is F.I.S.T. all about becoming a non profit?  Does this organization need black women’s numbers in order to meet required economic status?

If F.I.S.T. does not address racism, racist women in your group, you all would be crazy to think that it will not be called out over and over and over again for ITS  ACTIVE RACISM.  The days of, Black Women Don’t Matter, here, there and everywhere are over.

Tracy

Lois Kay	Thu, Sep 20, 12:32 PM (2 days ago)
to

I have no idea why my name is mentioned in this thread – but anyone who is accusing me of being racist can FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF.

– I have been involved in anti-racist efforts *literally* since I was 5 years old.Thanks.

Most Sincerely,
Lois Kay

Tracy Neal	Thu, Sep 20, 1:53 PM (2 days ago)
to

Lois Kaye…

you were one of the moderators of Refuse To Date Men That Use Porn, that coddled racist, Laurin Crossin and gave her a platform to spew her racism and lies.  When I found out about her fake safe house, that housed majority black women, you Refuse moderators, refused to post the documented evidence that I’d been given by Laura Akers and also refused to allow me to share with other women, my interaction with Laurin in Refuse.  When Crossin threatened suicide and cried her white woman tears, because I, the angry black woman was calling her out on her racism, you Refuse moderators sent word to me, through Linda Calder, that you all couldn’t post my commentary because “Laurin is suicidal”. You call that radical feminism?!  Girl bye!  You all collectively protected a racist, black male patriarchy, worshipping woman from a black radical feminist that had RECEIPTS of her racism against black women.  And now you are a member of this organization that wants black women to join!!!  The utter arrogance of it all!

Tracy Neal

Ann Me	Thu, Sep 20, 3:05 PM (2 days ago)
to

Thanks, Beth. Good suggestions. If our group-to-be-formed decides to pursue these complaints against these two women, that’s the type of neutral investigation that’s needed.

Ann

Sent from my iPhone

Lois Kay	Sep 20, 2018, 3:06 PM (2 days ago)
to

Tracy, you “see” what you want to see.

We didn’t publish your submitted temper tantrum post against and trashing an individual to thousands of Refuse members across the globe,

…so in your mind: that makes everyone a racist. 

That page was for ANTIPORN,

not for your person vendettas.

What do prostituted women in Indonesia care about “transracial” claims by a woman thousands of miles away? What do 14year old boys swearing off porn in Uganda care about the US “rad fem community”? What do heartbroken women grieving the loss of their relationships due to porn CARE about a personal a conflict that has nothing to do with them? Etc etc etc

Yes, we published ANTIPORN posts by a woman who is an industry survivor. That doesn’t mean we approve of EVERYTHING in her life. (& I personally find transracial talk to be racist & offensive, which you already know.)

We published on Refuse quotes by Hefner & Bundy as well – do you think that means we endorsed them as individuals too??

Try to see the BIG PICTURE, ffs.

Also, the leadership team TRIED to address you and your concerns at that time, but you wouldn’t meet with Linda who was local to & known by you irl, nor reply to other attempts to connect. Are you forgetting that part of this???

You are just stirring up slander & shit for the sake of it, and it is beyond insulting and annoying.

I do not condone my reputation being smeared in this way. Anyone who knows me irl is well aware of the positions of my heart, and that “racist” is NOT an adjective which describes me. (Nor Linda, who even marched alongside MLK, for godsake.)

NOPE.

Lois Kay	Thu, Sep 20, 3:11 PM (2 days ago)
to

Furthermore: feel free to take me off this list if my character is questioned;

I only care to personally affiliate with peers who understand the concepts of “big picture thinking” & of mutual accountability.

C. A. B.	Thu, Sep 20, 3:33 PM (2 days ago)
to

I completely agree with Ann that no one should be removed without due process.  We want to promote an atmosphere of openness, inclusion, sharing and support, not recreate the worst aspects of social media where people accuse one another, label one another, smear one another, mock one another, and act spitefully or punitively towards one another.

Certainly any concerns or grievances need to be addressed and worked through, but this requires mutual respect and willingness to hear one another.  It is never wise to attribute motives to others because not only is it an inappropriate crossing of boundaries, but only the person herself knows what her motives are; instead we need to observe the behavior and then state any concerns, ask questions, and work towards deeper understanding.  This is the only way to reach any real resolution.

I for one will be open to hear any worries or concerns when we talk tomorrow night and will be happy to help facilitate the discussion.

In sisterhood,

Carol

Laura Akers <	Thu, Sep 20, 4:23 PM (2 days ago)
to

Ann you accused me of demanding you to remove the women from the group YET I asked you to provide proof and you have not. Where is the proof???? You don’t just get to say something without substantiating it. I have all of the conversations btwn you and I. I stand behind what I say & will share it all with anyone. Here is the entire conversation btwn Ann & Myself where I stated clearly that I would stand by Ann if she wanted to confront them in the group and then again correcting her to clarify that I had not asked her to throw them out of the group. I stand behind what I say. I did not know at the beginning of this conversation that I was speaking to Sam Esther. Ann never told me she was Sam. I believe Sam Esther followed my personal posts during the Laurin Crosson call out so she would have seen Linda Calder’s position during that time since I made it all public.

Radical feminist network

Inbox

x

Ann M	Tue, Aug 14, 8:40 AM		to me

Hi Laura,

Missed you at our radical feminist teleconference last night.

Hope you can make the next one.

Minutes will be available in the next few days.

In sisterhood,

Ann

Sent from my iPhone

Laura Akers <>	Tue, Aug 14, 11:27 AM		to Ann

Hi Ann, 

I have a child with autism who cannot stand it if I am on the phone so it isn’t always feasible for me but on top of that there are women in this group, Linda Calder & Lois Kay who actively lied about, trashed & banned me (and still are) when I called a con artist, Laurin Crosson, out within our RF circles since she preys on vulnerable women & I was seeing many RF’s being taken in by her con. 

I won’t participate in a group with women who are not only not actual Radical Feminists, but who take racist misogynistic stands against real Radical women in order to maintain friendships & engage in White Fragility when called to unpack & BE Anti Racist. The way these women spoke to the black women who confronted them left me sick to my stomach.  (IMost of the Moderators of Refuse To Date Men Who Use Porn took that same position with the exception of Charro who left that group). 

If you don’t know about Laurin Crosson you can read about her here. https://rockstarrministrieslaurincrosson.wordpress.com/2018/04/16/rockstarr-ministries-expose-of-laurin-crosson/  (If you have trouble getting the page from that link please go to WordPress.com and type Laurin Crosson Rockstarr Ministries expose in the search box. 

Exposing her shut “Rockstarr Ministries” down for the most part but she is still at it. I just received this yesterday from another RF who is passing it around to warn people. I know for a fact that Linda Calder is still actively involved with Laurin Crosson & telling people that she has been victimized by those of us who exposed her. Last week out of the blue I was attacked by another woman in our circles who was seen going into private chat with Linda Calder & Laurin Crosson on that very day (which I didn’t know at the time but later found out)….so point being this is still very much ongoing, but even if it were not ongoing,  I feel uncomfortable about the fact that these women are in this group. 

These two women, Linda and Lois refused to take a stand for Laurin’s victims, or for Black women & even banned my Black RF sister (this is a woman who knows Linda Calder personally) & refused to allow her to post a statement of concern about Laurin’s claiming to be black, when she has two white parents, in Refuse to Date Men who use Porn, even after Laurin was making that claim & berate black women on their group threads. Enabling Laurin allows her to continue asking vulnerable women for money. In this post it is easy to see that her story doesn’t make any sense as it would be unfathomable that a Safehouse would be located at such a public space where strangers have common access as they would at any real Alpaca Farm. Also I can say with considerable certainty that the only person Laurin Crosson has had at her house since about 2014 or perhaps early 2015 is a man named Niko

She was banned specifically for insisting that Trans-racial is racist & misogynistic and that that alone should be enough for those women to take serious actions with Laurin Crosson, not to mention all her victims. 

I also received a phone call from another woman in Detroit area who was expressing a lot of concern about Linda Calder’s actions w/in a supposed RF group she established there. The woman, whom I have never met told me that Linda was trashing me continually to this group of women gathering in Detroit. She had grown deeply concerned about that kind of group dynamic & stated that she had really felt that it was deeply dysfunctional & not in line with RF. After she attended a RF retreat she stated that her feelings of concern were further confirmed since Linda Calder’s group was not at all a reflection of the group dynamic at the retreat. One of the primary purposes of this group is to go stand outside of strip clubs to tell girls they don’t have to strip for a living. This is also problematic for me as an exited woman since it is a moralistic action rather than a Radical action due to the fact that the ladies were not going there to provide actual resources to the girls if they wish to exit, only to tell them they don’t need to do it. There have also been many many issues from these women when other women have turned to them for help with all of the aggressive men on Refuse. So through & through every bit of action is really quite the anti-thesis of a Radicalized state of awareness. 

As a Radical Woman myself I am not adverse to being in groups where members are still unpacking. I don’t hold expectations that every member will be at the same point in their decolonization process however these women, while claiming to be against porn, are refusing to take a stand for the Greater good if it is inconvenient to them, they take actions against Real True Radical Women, and they are doing damage by Posing as Radicals since women just finding RF might meet up with them first (as this woman who contacted me above did). 

I feel it is imperative that any women of color in this group have full access to the truth about these women. Is Theresa El in this group? I need to let her know about this & it’s important to me to get this information to any other WOC in this group since I do not believe most WOC would want to be in a group with women who are not Anti Racist. 

If you plan to confront this issue w/in the group setting I am more than willing to be present & assist as I am able but otherwise, I’m afraid this isn’t a group I would feel comfortable devoting any time & energy to in light of these members.

Best Laura Akers 

Ann Me	Tue, Aug 14, 12:56 PM		to me

Hi Laura,

I’m sorry you’ve been through this and I am certainly sympathetic with you and have taken your side on your dispute with Lauren. The two women you named were not even on the call last night as I recall.

The problem is this- I am trying to organize a large national activist network, not just a small intimate support group  I am hoping for thousands of members and affiliated local groups. Many women have grievances and disputes  against other women, some like yours completely legitimate.  You are not the only women who feel betrayed by other women on the list (different ones.) However if I began to exclude or expel individual women based on grievances or concerns of other women regarding incidents outside the group – not based on their being disruptive to this particular group -we will never get this project off the ground.  So I really can’t support doing that.

If you want to be taken off the list, I understand and respect your decision.  Let me know.

In sisterhood and solidarity,

Laura Akers <>	Aug 14, 2018, 6:30 PM		to Ann

Hi Anne, 

While I’m sure you mean well I wasn’t eliciting sympathy. My objective for messaging you though was to make you aware that there are members of this group already (the mailing list is relatively small at this time from what I can tell) who are not only not RF’s but Known racists.  

If a group has members who don’t even embrace or comprehend the most basic essential tenants of RF & there is no group discussion to address that or ensure that everyone is in fact committed to doing the kind of work necessary when it comes to dismantling Patriarchy & All of it’s tenants, then you can gather thousands of women & it won’t lead to liberation.

Where you are reducing the issue to a personal one which impacts me,  my position is one I am taking based on my understanding of Radical Feminism & the necessity that Radical Feminists be staunchly committed to dismantling Racism (their own & w/in society) as they are to those issues which impact them more personally (ie Sexism).  

Yes remove me please as I do not want to be a member of a group (of primarily white women) who are accepting/embracing of Racists just to get numbers & don’t actually actively & openly work to dismantle racism wherever it rears it’s head. 

There are other Anti Racists in this group & you can expect I will share these communications with them so they can make a choice based on your position. 

Regards,

Laura Akers

Ann Me	Aug 14, 2018, 6:55 PM		to me

 I have done nothing here that can remotely be considered racist. I have turned down other requests from white women to remove others from the group for various grievances concerning different individuals.  I’m doing no different here.

I’ve merely put together a list of women I know and women I don’t know who were attending a radical feminist conference and who expressed interest in this project. If we start throwing women out,  that’s the end of the group.

In my opinion the way to address racism or other forms of prejudice like anti lesbian prejudice or prejudice against immigrants for being immigrants or prejudice against Muslims, or prejudice against people who are poor or homeless,  is to develop strong written Principles of unity.  It’s not by throwing people out before this organization even begins.  If I didn’t think people could learn and be educated, I wouldn’t be a feminist or a revolutionary.

As I said, those two women were not even on the teleconference.

Laura Akers <>	Aug 14, 2018, 10:08 PM		to Ann

How in the world are you making what I said about you personally? Deflecting for sure & aren’t you Sam Esther? You are on my friends list so I’m a little bit confused as to why you are trying to distance yourself as though Linda Calder or Louis Kay are in that group of women you “don’t know” or as though you knew nothing about the Laurin Crosson call out. And It doesn’t matter if those women were on the call last night or not.  Why would a true Radfem want to “Develop Strong written Principles of Unity” with racist women? You don’t even need any proof of the racism. You only need to understand that those women support Laurin Crosson even after knowing that she claims to be black when she is biologically white (Trans-racial) which is both racist & sexist. 

So it’s “Written Principals” and NOT real life action & accountability that are going to stop racism in Radical Feminism? Racism is not a bad habit undone by reading a set of principles or joining a group who never engages in real life Anti Racism. That’s a joke to me. NO

You asked me to join this group knowing I am a Native woman but instead of Demonstrating Anti Racism you will keep the racists in your group……..cause…..you want thousands of women to join & it’s not lost on me that Linda Calder & Louis Kay have access to thousands of women……which would be quite a good source for you to acquire those memberships. 

And as you did above, you will claim I demanded you throw the women out when actually my suggestion was that you hold the women accountable in the group setting…..because addressing Racism IS Radical Feminism. 

Ann Me

Aug 14, 2018, 11:46 PM Ann Me Aug 14, 2018, 11:46 PM to me Ann Me Aug 14, 2018, 11:46 PM to me I don’t know these two personally, they are just names on a list, two of 200 hundred women I friended on FB because I liked one thing they may have posted or said one time; they are two of 20 or more who expressed their interest in my idea at the WIM conference and signed a signup sheet I was passing around and left on the table. My contact has been minimal to nonexistent. It may be my lousy memory but I have no specific memory of them at all.  There may well be other women on the email list with racist or homophobic attitudes – I didn’t interview people to make sure they were free of all prejudices. That’s simply not workable.  If they or others have such attitudes that will come out in the context of the group and can be confronted at that time. I know what you wrote about Laurin and have no reason to doubt that you are correct.  Of course I am completely opposed to the concept of “transracial.” But that’s all I know about the situation.  And I may have missed references to those two in what you wrote or simply don’t recall them. They didn’t participate in the teleconference so not sure how interested they are and whether they will be involved in any real way. They are not in the subcommittee doing the editing either.  So far they have had zero role in drafting the principles. It’s not up to me alone to hold people accountable, it’s up to the group that is still being formed to hold women accountable to a set of principles once we adopt them.    We are still in the process of adopting them. Should these two or anyone else say or do anything racist in the context of the group I would of course say something. I’m not sure what you expect me to do at this juncture. All this little group has done is comment on versions of the Statement I drafted (originally by myself) and have a two hour teleconference that only reviewed part of it.  I incorporated editing ideas from several people, those two weren’t among them. There’s been discussion about adding a paragraph on race, though it hasn’t been drafted yet.  That’s it. These FB based connections are challenging. I never met you in person and that sometimes can make miscommunication more likely. I think that’s what’s happening here. I don’t know these two personally, they are just names on a list, two of 200 hundred women I friended on FB because I liked one thing they may have posted or said one time; they are two of 20 or more who expressed their interest in my idea at the WIM conference and signed a signup sheet I was passing around and left on the table. My contact has been minimal to nonexistent. It may be my lousy memory but I have no specific memory of them at all.  There may well be other women on the email list with racist or homophobic attitudes – I didn’t interview people to make sure they were free of all prejudices. That’s simply not workable.  If they or others have such attitudes that will come out in the context of the group and can be confronted at that time. I know what you wrote about Laurin and have no reason to doubt that you are correct.  Of course I am completely opposed to the concept of “transracial.” But that’s all I know about the situation.  And I may have missed references to those two in what you wrote or simply don’t recall them. They didn’t participate in the teleconference so not sure how interested they are and whether they will be involved in any real way. They are not in the subcommittee doing the editing either.  So far they have had zero role in drafting the principles. It’s not up to me alone to hold people accountable, it’s up to the group that is still being formed to hold women accountable to a set of principles once we adopt them.    We are still in the process of adopting them. Should these two or anyone else say or do anything racist in the context of the group I would of course say something. I’m not sure what you expect me to do at this juncture. All this little group has done is comment on versions of the Statement I drafted (originally by myself) and have a two hour teleconference that only reviewed part of it.  I incorporated editing ideas from several people, those two weren’t among them. There’s been discussion about adding a paragraph on race, though it hasn’t been drafted yet.  That’s it. These FB based connections are challenging. I never met you in person and that sometimes can make miscommunication more likely. I think that’s what’s happening here.

Laura Akers <>	Aug 15, 2018, 12:22 PM (13 days ago)		to Ann, bcc: Theresa, bcc: Sherri

Now I’m piecing it all together. Tracy Neal was a part of the secret group for the conference in Chicago & so were you. Tracy signed up to go because she knows Linda Calder in person & they agreed to go together prior to the Laurin Crosson situation. Tracy posted very specific information about the Laurin Crosson situation in that secret group. The organizers of that group had a similar response to yours here…..essentially saying “I will have nothing to do with it since it isn’t happening directly in this group”…. Both of the Black women who were scheduled to attend that conference were very upset by that response, the Anti Racists in the group spoke up to confront the moderators who were making very racist kinds of statements themselves & due to how that went in that group discussion with the moderators Both of the Black RF’s Refused to attend that conference. You were privy to ALL of that information.

If I remember correctly you even had actual exchanges with Tracy herself during that time. 

Why are you now trying to “say” you don’t really know who these women are or that they were connected to Laurin Crosson I was privy to all conversations btwn Tracy and everyone else during that time because Tracy asked me to real all exchanges during that time so I feel pretty comfortable saying that you were in that group. Even if you did not know those women were directly involved, which seems unlikely to me….. your response doesn’t make sense to me still  because if you know that I was right to call Laurin Crosson out & I say to you….”hey, these women are bad news because of this this & this”…..it seems at the very least you would have expressed a willingness to explore way to address this in the group setting in light of finding out that you have members who are still defending Laurin Crosson in your group……

.Also You also witnessed the exchanges in that group & those Black women leaving even after they had paid to attend. You KNOW that the reason why those Black women left is because the moderators stated that they didn’t want to address the issue since the members did not engage in the actual racism & silencing in their group…..and you were privy to all of the conversations about how these very type of responses w/in RF groups is preventing a unification btwn white women and Radical Women of Color…….YET you offered the EXACT same response here. 

Anne it’s simply not enough to say “I am opposed to these things”. If you are opposed to something you don’t align yourself with individuals who engage in the very acts you claim to be “opposed” to in the name of “educating them”. That is the exact sentiment of Linda Calder & Louis Kay…it’s what they have told the Many Many women who asked them to ban abusive men from the group….. They said, No we hope to “educate them”, No “if we ban them we can’t help them”. 

And when it comes to these women it isn’t just the Laurin Crosson incident. These women are KNOWN to be infiltrators of the RF circles. Just last night YET ANOTHER woman speaking up about their homophobic Anti Woman…Pro Patriarchy practices. MANY MANY women have been speaking out about these moderators of Refuse for a long time now. Just because you may have met them….Linda Calder/Louis Kay in person at the conference….And did not meet me in person…doesn’t mean you cannot gain a clear picture….to me that is yet another excuse. I am communicating very clearly & you are also communicating very clearly. 

There is really nothing more to say. You have stated your position and I understand it all too well. 

Laura Akers <>	Aug 15, 2018, 12:41 PM (13 days ago)		to Ann

I wanted to say & forgot to mention in my final email……These are women with significant influence, not single individuals. When you align yourself with women who have influence…like it or not… that is a political statement in & of itself.

Ann Me	Aug 15, 2018, 10:42 PM (13 days ago)		to me

I found and reread Tracy’s posts in the secret WIMCON group. She mentioned the incident with Laurin but no mention of the two women you named Linda and

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2018, at 10:41 AM, Laura Akers <lalascareer@gmail.com> wrote:

I wanted to say & forgot to mention in my final email……These are women with significant influence, not single individuals. When you align yourself with women who have influence…like it or not… that is a political statement in & of itself. 

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 12:22 PM Laura Akers <lalascareer@gmail.com> wrote:

Now I’m piecing it all together. Tracy Neal was a part of the secret group for the conference in Chicago & so were you. Tracy signed up to go because she knows Linda Calder in person & they agreed to go together prior to the Laurin Crosson situation. Tracy posted very specific information about the Laurin Crosson situation in that secret group. The organizers of that group had a similar response to yours here…..essentially saying “I will have nothing to do with it since it isn’t happening directly in this group”…. Both of the Black women who were scheduled to attend that conference were very upset by that response, the Anti Racists in the group spoke up to confront the moderators who were making very racist kinds of statements themselves & due to how that went in that group discussion with the moderators Both of the Black RF’s Refused to attend that conference. You were privy to ALL of that information.

If I remember correctly you even had actual exchanges with Tracy herself during that time. 

Why are you now trying to “say” you don’t really know who these women are or that they were connected to Laurin Crosson I was privy to all conversations btwn Tracy and everyone else during that time because Tracy asked me to real all exchanges during that time so I feel pretty comfortable saying that you were in that group. Even if you did not know those women were directly involved, which seems unlikely to me….. your response doesn’t make sense to me still  because if you know that I was right to call Laurin Crosson out & I say to you….”hey, these women are bad news because of this this & this”…..it seems at the very least you would have expressed a willingness to explore way to address this in the group setting in light of finding out that you have members who are still defending Laurin Crosson in your group……

.Also You also witnessed the exchanges in that group & those Black women leaving even after they had paid to attend. You KNOW that the reason why those Black women left is because the moderators stated that they didn’t want to address the issue since the members did not engage in the actual racism & silencing in their group…..and you were privy to all of the conversations about how these very type of responses w/in RF groups is preventing a unification btwn white women and Radical Women of Color…….YET you offered the EXACT same response here. 

…

Laura Akers <	Thu, Sep 20, 5:46 PM (2 days ago)
to

Aside from all of the information I posted on the WordPress document here is a testimony from a Black woman who was victimized by Laurin Crosson. Here she is describing her experience at the doctor Laurin made her go to. Laurin told her that it was a requirement of the government Knowing fully well she wasn’t going to be able to maintain her NGO license beyond the trial period. She told me Many things some of which I am including here. She is still terrified of Laurin Crosson today. THIS WOMAN’S NIGHTMARE IS NOT A JOKE. It is very serious. The fact that these women defended LAURIN CROSSON & Refused to even Consider these victims lives is inexcusable and poses real danger to vulnerable women. It is NOT Radical Feminism.

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 11:49 PM Laura Akers

Sherri Golden	Sep 20, 2018, 6:00 PM (2 days ago)

I am deeply concerned about the mission of this group in light of the testimonials given by Laura and Tracy, as well as the proof provided by Laura. Without a clear resolution made by the next teleconference I feel that I’ll need to bow out. Racism is the antithesis of radical feminism, and I want absolutely nothing to do with it. I was already wondering exactly how many womyn of color WERE in this group from the first teleconference, as I was really only hearing voices from womyn who I perceived as privileged white womyn. (The classism issue presented by Bev Jo is also a valid question.) It did concern me that the womon of color who was suggested to be brought in to give perspective on racial issues is not a radical feminist. I know many black true radical feminists who could step up to that calling easily. Frankly, I’m floored that so many seem culpable in attempting to sweep this serious issue under the rug without close scrutiny. I can also vouch for Laura’s integrity, as I know her well, and as her friend, I do take offense to the comment made by a womon about her light skin. That is indeed a racist comment, whether you recognize it as such or not. I await a firm and swift decision on this matter, as I’m sure many other true radical feminists in this group do as well.

Laura Akers <	Thu, Sep 20, 6:50 PM (2 days ago)
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Carol, What astounds me is that Ann made one statement about me……That I demanded the women be removed & here you are forming your entire response around that lie she told. She never substantiated her statement. As of Yet she never provided the email proof of me demanding that YET you are running with it. I never demanded those women be removed. The fact that Ann claims she doesn’t have the emails is ridiculous. No one erases emails like that. Have you read the conversation between Ann and myself? I posted the entire thing. Instead of talking about fictional stuff can we focus on Facts? I also do not believe that you would be talking about all that atmosphere of openness and inclusion if we were reporting a known Tran-activist in our group…..therefore this kind of position makes it clear that the atmosphere of openness and inclusion you are referring to ONLY applies to Racist white women who refuse to uphold the humanity of & fight for liberation of Women of Color….  Fact is A white woman claiming to be black when she wants to doesn’t bring harm to white women so I guess ya’ll really don’t care about that but THAT position is NOT Radical Feminist on any level. The arguments should be the SAME for anyone defending Any form of Trans on any level.  I have felt deeply uncomfortable by the dismissiveness towards Tracy Neal & her account in this group today. She has experienced Exclusion & that is what she is making everyone aware of so Why aren’t you addressing that? Instead you are making it out like We are being disrespectful or inappropriate. What needs to happen is all of ya’ll women claiming to be Radical Feminist need to READ everything over.

As well I saw Steve Bloom mans-plain the RF commenting in the audience telling ya’ll that what you were stating about “working to find a way to respect one another” was a bunch of hogwash since Trans-activists have a Well planned out agenda to go after RF’s so I second the concerns Christina Adams expressed.

We have now stated it multiple times, we have asked for answers to the questions & concerns we posed. Like Christina said, we haven’t made any demands of anyone. Is it possible to stick with facts here in this group? Please read over every single bit of evidence I provided throughout the day. I have lots more but there really is more than enough for anyone to grasp the situation here. Laura Akers

Theresa El-Amin	Fri, Sep 21, 12:21 AM (1 day ago)
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Tracy,

What you and Laura are doing, is not the best way to deal with this. You’ve made some serious accusations about women few of us know. I’m all for getting to the bottom of it.

 I spoke with Laura about Choctaw prejudice against Black people. She was very helpful in illuminating a situation with a male Choctaw I was experiencing. Laura told me about passing as white. I told her what I thought of it. Looking to have perceived privileges based on gender or skin color is dishonest. It’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.

I want to get to know who the women are in FIST. Don’t want to spend time in fights about matters that should be easily resolved.

I told Ann that I’m willing to work on language for the Principles of Unity that clearly state anti-racism is a key value or principle.

I have no interest in being in a group with women who want to attack and fight because that’s just what they do. I trust we will agree to a feminist process for resolving differences.

Ann and I were both kicked out of a revolutionary socialist organization claiming to be feminist and anti-racist. It was neither. Ann and I are politically linked. We want to work together in the larger revolutionary struggle.

For me, transformative organizing is about building relationships. I have a low tolerance for mean girl shit.

Truly,

Theresa El-Amin

NOTE: Theresa and I never discussed what she thought of my skin color EVER. The only discussion had was that I stated I passed & had white privilege & that I had to spend years unpacking racist conditioning. She had issues with another Choctaw man whoom I do not knnow & who isn’t even from my Nation and I stated that many Choctaws are not decolonized. That was the end of that discussion.  

Tracy Neal	Fri, Sep 21, 12:42 AM (1 day ago)
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You all can turn your gaslights off, I’m done and won’t be conversing in the future with any of you.

Tracy Neal

Theresa El-Amin	Fri, Sep 21, 8:55 AM (1 day ago)
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Dear Tracy Neal,

Sounds like a good decision for you and the group. One thing I expect to find out tonight is how many Black women are in FIST at this point. I will invite other Black women to participate with the expectation that we will reach consensus on being actively anti-racist as a key principle of unity.

Be well.

Theresa El-Amin	8:15 AM (15 hours ago)
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Greetings All,

Thanks to those who joined the call. I believe there were fourteen of us who are committed to moving forward to declare FIST an anti-racist, radical feminist group. We are from different radical feminist traditions. Great to begin understanding our backgrounds as we shared our experiences and affiliations. Organizing a group is about building relationships.

I concluded we are connected in the struggle to end attempts to erase us as radical feminists. Glad that six of us agreed to work on the principles of unity to ensure that our commitment to fighting racism is upfront and clear.

I trust we will explore readings about radical feminism and building organization including the piece by Bernice Johnson Reagan of Sweet Honey and the Rock fame. I spoke of the role the tradition of Black Radical Feminism played in the formation of the Black Radical Congress (BRC) in June 1998 in Chicago.

Let us come together to learn, plan and advance the diverse traditions of radical feminism.

With respect and solidarity,

Theresa El-Amin

Georgia

Tamara Tornado	9:10 AM (14 hours ago)
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It was a productive phone call. Thanks to all who participated.

Kathie, please post a link to the essay “On Coalitions” by Bernice Reagon you recommended.

Thanks so much.

Tamara

Genny La	Sat, Sep 22, 3:52 PM (2 days ago)
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Hi All. I think we can be grateful for the controversy and the gift it has given us to proceed with a strong Anti-Racist position statement. We humans learn from our mistakes if any were made. I believe I/we can learn from Black Revolutionary Feminism.

Fighting all aspects of the white and male supremacy we are facing — in these times in this country — requires coming together in the strongest and broadest way to be our highest priority. While our majority Whiteness has relieved us of much of the oppression of white supremacy herstorically, our  Sisters of Color have been coping and progressing for centuries. I believe RF requires that we have an open ear to what they have learned and how they have organized.

It would be good to establish a committee of 3 to 5 wimmin for an RF immediate response team for controversies that have the potential of sabotaging our progress and our purpose, rather than have the responsibility be on one person, namely Ann, or the group as a whole.

I liked the suggestion to reach out to younger wimmin, and I think we need a top 3 position statement to that effect. I think this is very important. Many of the young wimmin who have transitioned have detransitioned once they found radical feminism, and they wondered where we were.

Also, if the words “self-determination” don’t appear anywhere in our statement, they should. Native and First Nation Wimmin have long fought for this. They are in deed on the front lines of the struggle to protect the environment for us all. Self-Determination is at the heart of their struggle and our RF struggle for all wimmin.

Are we a collective? Or a network? Interesting language to explore.

Last night’s discussion was fierce, rich, and honest, and it pulled me deeper into this effort. Thank you all! Progress not Perfection, Genny

Sherri Golden	1:49 PM (10 hours ago)
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I wish I could also say that it was a productive phone call, yet I still have many concerns about this group not being rooted in radical feminist principles.  Although I thought that clarifying much more on the anti-racist stance and need to set firm policies on how to address racist allegations moving forward were addressed, I still noticed that Ann failed to answer my questions about whether the proof submitted by Laura would be used in an investigation of these two womyn, and why Tracy was not allowed into the group when she specifically requested to be, and why Ann did not address her concerns via email. Theresa did also reiterate that Ann made mistakes in dealing with the situation and continued to repeat the same things, stated that an investigation needs to happen, yet I am equally concerned about her particular stance as a liberal feminist in a group with a supposed radical feminist stance, not to mention her affiliation with certain members of the transgender community. I will be waiting for these pending issues to be fully addressed, hopefully sooner rather than later. I could say more, but I’ll leave it at that for now while we all wait for clarification.

Theresa El-Amin	2:18 PM (9 hours ago)
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Sherri,

I’m no liberal. I spoke about the difference between bourgeois feminism and revolutionary feminism. Radical in the minds of some of you in the group is not the same as many I know who are clear about Black Radical Feminist traditions.

 We are women who have lived our whole lives as women. That’s what unites us with the greatest variety. The politics of radical feminism is another story that has to be examined.

 I was the only Black woman on the call. The whiteness thinking was overwhelming. No new thing for me when it comes to feminism and who gets heard. I’ve practiced getting heard in settings like FIST.

We have agreements coming out of the meeting. Ann needs to follow through on pulling the subcommittee together over email. I need to be added to the listserv.

I’m ready to engage in discussions that clarify the diversity of FIST. If Black Revolutionary Feminism is not welcome, I will move on.

Not fighting to be in a group of white women who have a low level of consciousness when it comes to challenging white supremacy.

Truly,

Theresa El-Amin

Sherri Golden	3:26 PM (8 hours ago)
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Oh, I certainly agree that there’s a lot of white privilege/fragility that needs to be unpacked within the group, Theresa.  That was very evident to me from the teleconference. Perhaps I’ve misspoken, yet I thought that you were also a trans ally… You did speak of relations with trans people of color on the call if I remember correctly. Can you clarify your stance on this topic? I don’t feel that as radical feminists, or even as womyn for that matter, it benefits us whatsoever to be forming alliances with TRAs.

Theresa El-Amin	4:35 PM (7 hours ago)
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Dear Sherri,

I know of some Black trans women who oppose the violence and threats some of you have experienced. They support the right of women born women to come together based on the reasons we agree on. They are fighting to stay alive not to claim any special privileges over women born women. Btw, I oppose all violence based on people trying to live their lives as they determine they want to live their lives.

I think white privilege plays a significant role in the stories I’ve heard about from Ann and others. I’m not lesbian. Black radical feminists I know are fighting patriarchy as a system of oppression and are women with different sexual orientations.

These are things we need to discuss in the context of diversity.

(Theresa is Pro Trans & states it Here in the Above email) 

Laura Akers	Sat, Sep 22, 5:27 PM (6 hours ago)
t

I wanted to set this here too so everyone can see it right here (it is posted in another thread in response to Carol but also belongs here

Bev	5:10 PM (15 minutes ago)
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Carol,

I start out trusting and then respond when I see repeated dishonesty and insults. I have a decades long history with Ann and have been incredibly supportive until this recent problem with finding out about the racism in the group and other problems (like the attempts to hold members to middle class rules.) I do not agree that those objecting to the racism in the group are being “aggressive” or “manipulative.”  Why not make your criticisms be direct and to those you are criticizing?  I’m trying to, for clarity.  By the way, a basic Radical Feminist principle is that “transwomen” do not exist.  They are men posing as women. But Theresa just wrote:

“I know of some Black trans women who oppose the violence and threats some of you have experienced.They support the right of women born women to come together based on the reasons we agree on. They are fighting to stay alive not to claim any special privileges over women born women.”

That is male on male violence.  That is not a Radical Feminist. Any man calling himself any kind of woman is oppressing women and certainly not supporting women. And they of course have special privileges over real women. Does Theresa call us “cis” when with these men?

Bev

Sherri Golden	Sat, Sep 22, 5:48 PM (6 hours ago)
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Yes, nearly all radical feminists that I know refer to them as TiMs, or Trans Identifying Males, which they are. Validating them as women clearly doesn’t help our cause. And as Bev said, if these trans identifying men are calling themselves women, why would we be forming any kind of alliance whatsoever with them? Radical feminism has always been by and for womyn, and we all should be quite aware of what that definition entails.

C. A. B.		6:50 PM (5 hours ago)
I agree. Carol

 

This was another Thread from these discussions:

Fwd: Male allies & “transwomen”

---

Sherri Golden <>	Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 11:37 PM
To:
Using the term “transwoman” only contributes to female erasure by acknowledging their demand to be seen as women. TiF is the commonly used acronym for a Trans Identifying Female. Many non radical feminists are indeed becoming aware of these terms and it’s imperative that radical feminists use the correct terminology so as not to be complicit in our own erasure and bring light to it. These conversations aren’t easy, as conversations on RACE equally aren’t easy, but they all need to be had to get to the ROOT. On Sat, Sep 22, 2018, 8:26 PM ‘Tamara Tornado’ via Feminists in Struggle <wrote: I think at some point we need to discuss our relationship to male allies. There are a few TIMs who I would consider to be male allies. The one I am most familiar with is Miranda Yardley. There are problems with him, and with other TIM allies, but I find them useful sometimes. I assume that Theresa was referring to “transwomen” whom some of us would consider male allies. Also, depending upon my audience, I have realized that TIM – trans-identified male, is a confusing term to people who are not already radical feminists. “Trans-identified male” gets mixed up with “transman” – that is, a woman who believes she is a man. I have come to use the term “transwoman” when speaking to the general public, so they know what I mean. I realize there is problems with that. I could not figure out a term that would be clear. I considered “men who pretend to be women” but worried it would be shot down as bigoted. I mean when I am trying to speak to an audience who is somewhat liberal, but not committed to a pro-trans ideology. I myself am very interested in swaying people in the middle. I don’t know why Theresa chose to use the term “transwomen” – but I would not jump on her for it. Also, there was criticism of our gender-critical panel at the Left Forum that included Steve Bloom. I didn’t know him, my friend suggested him and I trusted her. He had been an organizer of a petition in favor of free speech for gender critical feminists, which is why we invited him. Do you know how difficult it is to find feminists who are willing to speak out publicly criticizing the transgender movement? We tried to get women of color. I wrote to many of them. We wrote to other feminists. So many women are afraid to speak out publicly. They are afraid of losing their jobs, and more. You know that. I was reluctant to be a speaker myself. We did get Linda Bellos on skype. She was great. Though I was working to get women in person. Anyway, the point is, we need at some point to discuss where we stand with male allies, whether or not they identify as trans. Me, I am willing to use male allies in certain situations. I understand there are problems with them. It should be discussed fully. Tamara On 9/22/2018 3:10 PM, Bev wrote: Carol, I start out trusting and then respond when I see repeated dishonesty and insults. I have a decades long history with Ann and have been incredibly supportive until this recent problem with finding out about the racism in the group and other problems (like the attempts to hold members to middle class rules.) I do not agree that those objecting to the racism in the group are being “aggressive” or “manipulative.”  Why not make your criticisms be direct and to those you are criticizing?  I’m trying to, for clarity. By the way, a basic Radical Feminist principle is that “transwomen” do not exist.  They are men posing as women. But Theresa just wrote: “I know of some Black trans women who oppose the violence and threats some of you have experienced. They support the right of women born women to come together based on the reasons we agree on. They are fighting to stay alive not to claim any special privileges over women born women.” That is male on male violence.  That is not a Radical Feminist. Any man calling himself any kind of woman is oppressing women and certainly not supporting women. And they of course have special privileges over real women. Does Theresa call us “cis” when with these men?   Bev – Sent: Sat, Sep 22, 2018 2:55 pm Subject: Re: Does every woman here agree with what is going on? Bev, I’m telling you you have blind spots because you obviously are very selective about whom you criticize and whom you don’t, and because you attribute very negative motives to some like Ann but not to others with whom you are aligned.  I did *not* say that you should censor or reprimand anyone, not did I say anything anyone said excused Theresa’s derogatory comments to you, in fact quite the opposite.  There is more than enough aggressive and manipulative behavior in this group to go around, thinly disguised as activism.  I am making no excuses for any of it. We have a long way to go to communicate more honestly, overcome double standards, and to build some trust. Carol On 9/22/2018 2:25 PM, Bev wrote: No, Ann, there is a difference in describing behavior as opposed to just spewing insults.  I said you were a lawyer because you are. By “slick,” I was referring to how you are trying to manipulate the group with your class-privileged lawyer skills on top of the class privilege you grew up with. Of course you were trivializing racism in making a statement where you seemed to be setting yourself up as a final arbitrator/group leader about whether what you said was racist or not, and about what was real or not in objections to the racism, and everything else going on, including if the time was right to organize.   No one is “red-baiting” you. You recommended the video of the panel without comment though it’s not Radical Feminist and genuflects to the trans cult and is typically Leftist appropriation.  Of course that is part of what makes some us suspicious of your motives. You don’t seem to be aware or care about the history of Leftist groups trying to invade and recruit in our Radical Feminist community. You even come back with saying Marx has something to teach us, but what, that we already don’t know from early Lesbian Feminism?  And I still cannot believe you never seemed to have learned about basic classism, yet identify as a Radical Feminist. Why not try to learn before setting up this group with yourself as leader?  I explained in detail and don’t want to do it again. The group can see both our comments. Your personal criticism of me is another diversion. I do not assume the worst.  I feel used for the weeks I spent on the phone with you and in writing to try to make your statement appeal more to Radical Feminists because the group you want to run does not follow Radical Feminist principles and it was obvious in the original statement. Of course it’s suspicious that you did not want Tracy, who is a brilliant Black Radical Feminist, in the group, while inviting a woman who was your friend, you told the group was not a Radical Feminist.   No, Carol, why on earth are you telling me I have “blind spots” about my friends?  I should try to censor or reprimand women oppressed by racism who are trying to deal with it?  Why aren’t you concerned for them, and if you disagree, tell them directly?  And how does anything someone else says excuse Theresa’s level of abusive insults aimed at me? Again, and for all in the group, talking to women like this (below) is NOT Radical Feminist.  Neither is Ann telling us we should be grateful that Theresa who is being so abusive to us is in the group.  How can anyone feel safe then? Theresa admits she does not know me, but says this, and has not answered why: Theresa El-Amin: “Bev,   I have no idea who you are. You’re rude, crude and insulting. Your behavior has nothing to do with being a radical feminist as a political description.    I know just plain nuts when I hear and see it. That’s my assessment of people who think their mean insults will make others respond by doing what they say.   How ridiculous. Get lost. I won’t be liberal with your foolishness.”   Theresa Theresa El-Amin to Laura: “So sad to see how disoriented and confused Laura is about what she is capable of influencing. Wish I had known her when she was less damaged by whatever happened to her.”   Theresa   You lecture me, Ann, but not only accept Theresa’s cruel slander, but immediately afterward laud her. Then you tell me you’re sorry I missed the meeting?  Do you understand that I will never again choose to be in an abusive situation, which you are encouraging?   I keep worrying about women we don’t know about who might have joined or did join and left because of bad treatment, because it’s only a coincidence that I found out about Tracy and Laura. For all those here, who are just glad you’re not in their line of fire, your turn will come.  Good luck. Meanwhile, we will continue working for our international Radical Feminist movement, as I have since I was 19, 48 years ago. Bev Subject: Re: Does every woman here agree with what is going on? Bev, I suppose being called “slick and dishonest” isn’t slander and name-calling?   Or saying that I am “trivializing racism” or being “dishonestly personal and cruel”?   And having “privilege” thrown in my face every time I express an opinion? Or being basically red-baited with the idea that because I am a socialist, and am loosely affiliated with a tiny group still in formation based in New York, that this project that I began is a slick recruitment tool for this group, and not a result of my deep commitment to radical feminism and my desire that we create an organization capable of fighting back? Sure feels like slander and name calling to me. My commitment to female liberation, to my sisters, is every bit as deep and abiding as yours is, Bev.   My socialist politics is subordinate to my feminism, not the other way around. Tracy never asked to join the group or expressed any interest in it until this dispute came up and I rejected her demands.  I don’t know her personally but that was my honest impression that this was her reason for asking to join us.  If I was mistaken, I apologize. There has been a lot of name-calling and slander all around.  I for one hope it stops. I don’t believe this approach does anything to combat racism nor does fighting among ourselves serve us well with all our enemies at the gate. I think we need to learn to disagree without assuming the worst about other women’s motives. Fortunately, we had a very interesting and productive meeting last night, and we are moving forward on the project.  Sorry you missed the meeting. Ann On 9/22/2018 8:26 AM, C. A. B. wrote: I don’t excuse anyone’s insulting, aggressive, abusive behavior, Bev, I don’t care who they are, and I agree that you were insulted by Theresa and I don’t co-sign or support that in any way.  You seem to have some blind spots of your own, however in ignoring the insulting behavior of your allies.  This is why we need some standards of behavior that apply to everyone because it is not who we are or what our ideology is but the way we treat other people that defines us. Carol On 9/21/2018 5:12 PM, Bev wrote:   The double standard going on here is unbelievable. Incredibly vicious slander is made, but the victims are the ones blamed. Why?   Tracy and Laura tried to work with this group to make it as least racist as possible, and others of us joined to try to help out. We truly wanted a Radical Feminist group, but not one that seemed as segregated by race and class as this one seems to be. (I personally have put hours over weeks in writing and also on the phone with Ann into trying to strengthen this group and the group statement.) Instead of getting support to stay in the group, Tracy and Laura have been race-‘splained, patronized, insulted, and Tracy in particular, ignored. Instead of helping, Ann, you and others pull the usual trick of trivializing racism as “personal” or “infighting.” But then when your allies get as dishonestly personal and cruel as possible, from Lois’ classic racist comments here last night, to Theresa’s bizarre insults today, you say nothing. The proof is all here in the group emails. Ann, you saw what Theresa said to me and you agree and say we are lucky to have her?  (I’m asking you to tell the group what I said that that was “rude, crude and insulting” and “plain nuts,” /etc.? see the quote: Theresa El-Amin: “Bev,   I have no idea who you are. You’re rude, crude and insulting. Your behavior has nothing to do with being a radical feminist as a political description.    I know just plain nuts when I hear and see it. That’s my assessment of people who think their mean insults will make others respond by doing what they say.   How ridiculous. Get lost. I won’t be liberal with your foolishness.”   Theresa And Ann, you feel fine about this trashing of Laura, when Laura is perfectly clear and sane and has provided proof of what she was saying?  Where on earth have even your basic Feminist politics gone?:  “So sad to see how disoriented and confused Laura is about what she is capable of influencing. Wish I had known her when she was less damaged by whatever happened to her.”   Theresa This is another case of those who can’t answer with truth and respect will lie and ridicule.  But this is in front of the entire group and again, Ann responds by saying we are lucky to have Theresa in this group. By the way, in the discussions about making a group statement against racism, Ann said she was bringing in her friend, Theresa El-Amin, who Ann told the group was a Black woman but not a Radical Feminist. Also, Ann never really answered about how close her connections with the Leftist group, Old and New are, and some of us still think this group was an attempt to recruit for that group.  I have tried and I am done. I will not be in a group this abusive. Bev Sent: Fri, Sep 21, 2018 12:48 pm Subject: Re: Reminder of Friday’s teleconference and response to Laura and others Theresa I’m sure it’s difficult not to take things personally here but Liberal or Socialist are not the same as Radical Feminists. You have a strong allegiance to males to the level of expressing love for Steve Bloom in a public email. That makes it impossible for you to interact with Radical Feminists with any real level of sincerity so that is a problem. The one & only time I have heard Steve Bloom live he mansplained a Radical Feminist. That Said, whether I impact anyone or not is really none of my business because I’m not a fixer of folks I’m a liver of a decolonized life I find myself living. I use my voice to speak according to my understanding. For all the “working with” racists we still find ourselves here today with both overt & systemic racism still occurring in full force. I don’t coddle racists & I’m not responsible for their behavior or choices. Either racists folks come to a personal realization that oppressing others is wrong or they don’t. Pretend all you want that I’m inserting myself into a situation that has nothing to do with me but I was asked to join this group & told it is Anti Racist & Radical Feminist which is not the case therefore I am calling out the deception. In terms of the Name Calling. In my experience when people resort to those kinds of assertions you have levied against Bev here or to making mental health diagnosis in the Midst of a conflict it is because they do not wish to actually participate in conversation at hand. Yet more proof that this is mere foolishness happening here not Radical Feminist. On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 2:19 PM Theresa El-Amin <> wrote: Bev, I have no idea who you are. You’re rude, crude and insulting. Your behavior has nothing to do with being a radical feminist as a political description. I know just plain nuts when I hear and see it. That’s my assessment of people who think their mean insults will make others respond by doing what they say. How ridiculous. Get lost. I won’t be liberal with your foolishness. Theresa On Fri, Sep 21, 2018, 3:07 PM Bev <> wrote: This is overwhelming, so I will answer what I see with each email I open. No, I do not agree for a minute that Tracy wanted to join to fight. She is a Radical Feminist and wanted to help this group not be racist. I can’t believe you are slandering her like this, Ann. Trying to make the group not be racist is not “personal attacks” or “infighting.”  But you have to explain why you kept out the only Black Radical Feminist who wanted to join. Bev Subject: Re: Reminder of Friday’s teleconference and response to Laura and others I agree with most of your conclusions. Of course none of us is beyond criticism. Tracy asked to be signed up solely for the purpose of engaging in this fight not because of any interest expressed in being part of our project.  She made that clear that was her only purpose. When I wouldn’t do what she asked with regard to the dispute, she then said let me be on the call.  It is true that I didn’t put her on the list. My motives were to try to avoid the personal attacks and infighting that we have seen which are so destructive and could prevent this project from getting off the ground. Ann Sent from my iPhone On Sep 21, 2018, at 4:12 AM, K Scarbrough <> wrote: Some tentative conclusions/questions that I’ve drawn from this mess.  I agree this Laurin Crosson sounds like someone we would not want to join FIST.  I’m not convinced from what I’ve seen that Lois is a racist but I’ve registered the complaint.  No one in these multiple emails, as far as I can see, is entirely right or above criticism.  I don’t know why Tracy was refused entry into the google group. I’ve lost track of the questions that Laura A. and Tracy want answered.  I hope they can be repeated. Kathy Scarbrough On Sep 21, 2018, at 1:27 AM, Bev < wrote: Ann, I don’t think you’re intending to be dishonest, but your response shows so much arrogance and so little concern for Tracy and Laura and the rest of us really. If Marx has anything to teach us, why do you seem to know nothing about classism from a Lesbian Feminist perspective, that has been part of of our community for almost 50 years?  You even tried to convince me you were working class because you’d been around working class people. Yes, I want the numbers too, instead of the cowards who let the men take over our last organizations and are too afraid to lose friends or status to protest. I do it, and they thank me in private, though they have massive privilege, and snub me in public. Nice. They could change our communities if they even just tried to reach their servants (I call those who hire cleaners, gardeners, etc. in our community as having servants.)  They have way more power than I do, but I take the hits, threats and stalking. Yes, the way it is now scares me too. But, as I said, you are way more protected than I am. All I want is for us to at least treat each other as equals, and those with privilege just keep refusing.  I will never understand why. Ever.  If you can’t seen Lois’ glaring racism, how can you make a Radical Feminist group? And here is the problem about numbers.  As long as you want a safe space for the privileged, you will not have more oppressed women, who are also the majority. I worried that when I talked and wrote to you that I would help the group appear to be more Radical Feminist than it was. I still worry.  No Radical Feminist I know would want to be in the group the way it is. Bev Subject: Re: Reminder of Friday’s teleconference and response to Laura and others What this one “slick dishonest” lawyer who is so lacking in “basic feminist politics” that I still think Marx has something to teach us about class, wants to achieve more than anything is the ability to get those ten women on a picket-line to defend our rights anywhere in the country.  Certainly a place like the SF Bay Area it should be possible. Actually that’s not ambitious enough, I want tens of thousands of women fighting for us. That would make me feel quite a bit safer. As it is now, the world scares the hell out of me. Ann Sent from my iPhone On Sep 20, 2018, at 9:15 PM, Bev <> wrote: I don’t know how to begin to answer you, Ann. We have been friends, and I’m in shock at what you wrote because it is so slick and dishonest. Do you not even notice how you, the lawyer, has set up yourself as final decider of what is real or not in this group and discussion?  You are doing the usual accusations that are so often aimed at Feminists who try to work out harm being done, including oppression, and trying to make things safer for more oppressed women in Feminist groups so the groups do not end up segregated and only for the privileged. I have been fighting for Radical Feminist community since I was 19, in 1970.  The book I co-wrote was focused on what has gone wrong in our communities.  I could do a long talk about what has gone wrong where women prioritized males for decades, gutting our communities, with the trans worship being the latest. But the other side of it, among women, is the hierarchy benefiting the women who have gotten the most from men. You talk about homelessness and poverty, but you are not facing it as some of us are. We are the same age, but when I brought up classism with you in February, you seemed to have no idea what it was or knew basic feminist politics about it, and instead started quoting Marx. I can’t imagine why you don’t know one of the most basic issues that prevents women working together in groups like this. Instead of trying to finally learn more, you set up this group. Yes, it is serious to have racism and classism in a supposed Radical Feminist group, but you focus on the charges, as if they are not real. I did not know Tracy or Laura before I got involved with supporting them.  How Laura was dismissed by you sounded so similar to how you dismissed my worries about the group, which is that basically we are expendable unless we go along with what makes this an unsafe group. And Tracy basically being kept out from the beginning?  Why?  Why would you do that and then bring in a woman who is not a Radical Feminist instead of the many women you could have sought out?  (By the way, Tracy referring to a con artist and liar using a suicide threat to manipulate women does not in any way reflect badly on Tracy.) As far as I know, I have been fighting the trans cult longer than anyone else I know, including at the 1973 West Coast Lesbian Conference, where I am still slandered for it. I am still being stalked and threatened, and just last Sunday I went to an OLOC event where I was yelled at and had a finger pointed threateningly in my face because I had written emails in our local Lesbian list about the Lesbians attacked at the Dyke March in June by women supporting the trans cult. It never ends, but I am never stopping. But like at the March and on Sunday, who is really preventing us from having a real community is women. You belittle our international contacts, which are far more than Australia, and don’t seem to know how powerful they are. Instead, you refer to “down the street.”  What street, where?  When I’d told you about the SF Library exhibit advocating murdering feminists, you told me to get ten women to picket. Really?  Where?  Who?  I think we are in very different worlds. You refer to vitriol turned on each other but that seems aimed at those of us objecting to it, and not who is actually doing it in this group. Am I the only one who noticed that Lois’ response was “fuck you” and not concern for the women hurt by her racism? “What happened to our movement? What happened to our community?”  Looks like the same old things, which is groups that seem for the most privileged, that at most might tokenize more oppressed women but really does nothing to make the groups safe and welcoming for them. But why not?  Why is that so hard to do?  I know what I think and that it’s because the most privileged want an exclusionary club for the privileged. And I guess you’re getting it.  Bev Sent: Thu, Sep 20, 2018 8:23 pm Subject: Re: Reminder of Friday’s teleconference and response to Laura and others Ok. I’ll continue the conversation. I want to provide my overall perspective concerning the mess we are in. Women as a sex are losing our shirts. We are being attacked on all sides -by promoters of trans ideology who wish to disappear us, and prevent us from self organizing or even talking about ourselves as females, and by the racist sexist far Right that want women barefoot pregnant and in the kitchen, denied control of our reproduction, lesbians forced back  in the closet, to lock up and deport more and more refugee women and their kids, and subject African Americans including more and more women to mass incarceration. And women especially women of color and lesbians are poor and getting poorer.  Climate change is causing one disaster after another. Homelessness is everywhere. And  of course the epidemic of male violence that will continue whether there is a word for being female or not. So what are women doing to fight back in the US? Where are the on the ground organizations that are taking on the transactivists as they try to take over the Dyke March, where are the groups with a radical feminist understanding of how patriarchy works leading the struggle in defense of our rights as females?  We have virtually nothing but FB groups where we get the satisfaction of liking each other’s posts. Maybe in a few places if we are lucky like New York there may be small meetings.  There are small bits of resistance like the TERF exhibit and some stickers. We had an underground conference in Chicago with 75 women. Mostly women have nothing.  We communicate with our friends in Australia. That feels good and international solidarity is important but it doesn’t change what’s happening down the street. What happened to our movement? What happened to our community? I had hoped that the time was ripe to organize something real and on the ground. That was my dream but maybe my  timing was off.  Maybe we are not ready yet. Because we have used all the vitriol and righteous anger we have in us and turned it on each other.  There’s not a lot of it left for fighting the patriarchy. Calling other women in the movement a racist (or lesbophobic or classist or otherwise bigoted)    is a serious charge and not always the most helpful way of characterizing a disagreement or raising consciousness.   Though racism and other forms of bigotry are endemic in our society, it doesn’t mean all disagreements between the privileged and less privileged group can be categorized as bigotry. When dealing with other feminists, it is not always helpful to assume the worst about a woman’s motives in taking certain actions and to engage in disparagement and name calling against other women in the movement. It can actually be very destructive, even fatal to the possibility of organizing a movement at all. I saw a fair amount of evidence that Lauren is crook and a fraud and if it is accurate that she claimed to be Black though she is white, I would agree that this is racist. I don’t believe there is one woman in our email list/google group who has any support or sympathy for transracialism. Not one. You’ll also notice that Lauren is not on the list for this group in formation. What we are talking about is one step removed from Lauren. Frankly the evidence that Linda and Lois are racists is weak.  It assumes the worst about their motives in posting and not posting certain items on a FB page they administer from Lauren and regarding Lauren.  I think far more likely than racism as a motive is a difference of opinion or perspective. There was no evidence that either supports transracialism or any other racist practice. Radical feminists need to learn to disagree without name calling, personal attacks or demeaning each other’s motives. We are trying to build a movement not a fundamentalist religion. We are not all going to think exactly alike. No one has a monopoly on what it is to be a right thinking radical feminist or to call others “not radical feminists” because of some differences in opinions or approach.  All we can do is define areas of common ground and a few essential bottom lines for us, learn the lost art of respectful  discussion and debate and begin to work together through these differences with tolerance, flexibility and good  will.  Those parameters need to be neither too broad nor too narrow – they need to help us define a political space both narrow enough to be politically coherent and broad enough to allow our movement to grow. But if we don’t learn to work together better than we are doing here, if we assume the worst when we disagree with our sisters, our movement will never ever be reborn. And the patriarchal white supremacist capitalist system will be able to continue its downward spiral without much opposition from us. The acronym “FIST” was supposed to represent the power of women united against patriarchy.  I didn’t envision the FIST being directed at other feminists. Ann Sent from my iPhone On Sep 20, 2018, at 5:57 PM, Tracy Neal <> wrote: These are not accusations.  These are documented facts being brought to light by radical feminists.  We’re all grown women, no need to put this conversation in time out. Tracy Neal Subject: Re: Reminder of Friday’s teleconference and response to Laura and others I would like to ask that this interaction be suspended for the time being until people can calm down and speak to one another with respect.  Nothing is being accomplished by these accusations other than adding to the acrimony and distrust. Sherri, no one is trying to sweep anything under the rug, nor is anyone denying the importance of class or excusing racism.  In fact, insisting on due process IS committing to give these issues close scrutiny. Let’s talk tomorrow night, but please be willing to listen, give others the benefit of the doubt, and respect everyone on the call.  Otherwise we won’t be able to achieve anything positive. Carol On 9/20/2018 4:22 PM, Tracy Neal wrote: Shoshana H (Shani H), you actually have ZERO reason not to respect me or to distrust me.  I have not earned your disrespect and as far as  your “No reason to trust” I’m the one that has no reason whatsoever to trust that you are the least bit interested in making sure that F.I.S.T. is not a safe haven for racist women, that call themselves radical feminists.  Why do we need to earn your trust when all you have to do is READ the facts for yourself?!  This isn’t about earning your trust! This is about reading the facts, comprehending the facts and acting on the knowledge of said facts.  The facts stand on their own and you not trusting or respecting me don’t change the facts one way or the other.  Your approval of me is not required. Tracy Neal From: Shoshana H Subject: Re: Reminder of Friday’s teleconference and response to Laura and others There are six women who signed the email demanding a written response. I know only two women who signed the demand.  One is you, who I get along with on facebook, the other is Christina who has bullied me on Facebook.  I don’t know the other four women, but I am not beholden to provide a written statement in response to women that I have no particular reason to trust or respect.  If the rest of the group wants to provide that I will not participate. On September 20, 2018 at 3:39 PM Laura Akers <wrote: Shani, Ann accused me of demanding that she remove them from the group and that is a lie. I stated if she wanted to confront them in the group I would be by her side. I also stated later that I never asked her to remove them, only that she come up with a way to address the incident. Again, if Ann would have said to either me or Tracy “Let me contact these women to see if they are even going to be in the group & we will go from there” that would have been an acceptable response. We already stated in the original email and I stated it again that we are wanting a formal answer to our questions from FIST in writing. We have not received that as of yet. Is this something this group plans to provide? On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 3:32 PM Shoshana H <  wrote: Hello, Laura sent me copies of emails between that she sent to Ann. Here is the relevant email.  At least that one point can be cleared up. If women would prefer a screen shot I can provide, however I promise that this is an exact copy/paste.  It seemed very clear that Laura asked to leave the group if the women in question were not removed.  I am unclear myself on what the demands of the six women who signed the recent email are.  Is the demand that we remove all women who are associated with a woman who believes in “trans-racialism” or is there a woman in this group that holds that view?  Another question I have is about the three women who did not present their experiences in the body of the email but did sign.  What is their relationship to this group?  One woman who I do not wish to name is an outright bully and has personally attacked me.  Is she in this group?  If so, should I demand that she be removed?  I was on the previous conference call and heard opinions that I find offensive.  This made me wary, however, my strategy is to wait and see if things that I am ideologically opposed to end up in the statement of principles.  If they do, I will have to decide whether the group is right for me.  It is very difficult to form groups.  For example, I have interacted with women who call themselves radical feminists who support and defend the Jewish state.  Can I work with women who hold a view that is so abhorrent to me? It is certainly as racist an ideology as transracialism.  The question becomes whether I should work with women who hold that view.  I don’t have answers but I hope that these questions bring us to some kind of process where we can come up with a shared set of principles that are narrow enough for us to function. Shani ___________________________________________________________________________ Hi Anne, While I’m sure you mean well I wasn’t eliciting sympathy. My objective for messaging you though was to make you aware that there are members of this group already (the mailing list is relatively small at this time from what I can tell) who are not only not RF’s but Known racists. If a group has members who don’t even embrace or comprehend the most basic essential tenants of RF & there is no group discussion to address that or ensure that everyone is in fact committed to doing the kind of work necessary when it comes to dismantling Patriarchy & All of it’s tenants, then you can gather thousands of women & it won’t lead to liberation.  Where you are reducing the issue to a personal one which impacts me,  my position is one I am taking based on my understanding of Radical Feminism & the necessity that Radical Feminists be staunchly committed to dismantling Racism (the

C. A. B.	Sat, Sep 22, 10:26 AM (13 hours ago)
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I don’t excuse anyone’s insulting, aggressive, abusive behavior, Bev, I don’t care who they are, and I agree that you were insulted by Theresa and I don’t co-sign or support that in any way.  You seem to have some blind spots of your own, however in ignoring the insulting behavior of your allies.  This is why we need some standards of behavior that apply to everyone because it is not who we are or what our ideology is but the way we treat other people that defines us.

Carol

From Ann:

Bev,

I suppose being called “slick and dishonest” isn’t slander and name-calling?   Or saying that I am “trivializing racism” or being “dishonestly personal and cruel”?   And having “privilege” thrown in my face every time I express an opinion? Or being basically red-baited with the idea that because I am a socialist, and am loosely affiliated with a tiny group still in formation based in New York, that this project that I began is a slick recruitment tool for this group, and not a result of my deep commitment to radical feminism and my desire that we create an organization capable of fighting back?

Sure feels like slander and name calling to me.

My commitment to female liberation, to my sisters, is every bit as deep and abiding as yours is, Bev.   My socialist politics is subordinate to my feminism, not the other way around.

Tracy never asked to join the group or expressed any interest in it until this dispute came up and I rejected her demands.  I don’t know her personally but that was my honest impression that this was her reason for asking to join us.  If I was mistaken, I apologize.

There has been a lot of name-calling and slander all around.  I for one hope it stops.

I don’t believe this approach does anything to combat racism nor does fighting among ourselves serve us well with all our enemies at the gate.

I think we need to learn to disagree without assuming the worst about other women’s motives.

Fortunately, we had a very interesting and productive meeting last night, and we are moving forward on the project.  Sorry you missed the meeting.

Ann

Sherri Golden	Sat, Sep 22, 3:33 PM (8 hours ago)
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Thank you for answering one of my questions from the call indirectly through Bev regarding Tracy being denied membership, Ann. I appreciate that semi-clarification, but I wonder if your denial was simply based on that assumption or if you actually asked Tracy why she wanted to join. I’m also awaiting an answer to my question of whether the evidence, proof that Laura submitted, which is not just blind accusations, will he reviewed for this proposed investigation.  (Just in case you did read me repeating my questions from the call last night in the other email, I am once again repeating them here for your convenience.)

Bev	Sat, Sep 22, 4:25 PM (7 hours ago)
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No, Ann, there is a difference in describing behavior as opposed to just spewing insults. 

I said you were a lawyer because you are. By “slick,” I was referring to how you are trying to manipulate the group with your class-privileged lawyer skills on top of the class privilege you grew up with.Of course you were trivializing racism in making a statement where you seemed to be setting yourself up as a final arbitrator/group leader about whether what you said was racist or not, and about what was real or not in objections to the racism, and everything else going on, including if the time was right to organize.

 

No one is “red-baiting” you. You recommended the video of the panel without comment though it’s not Radical Feminist and genuflects to the trans cult and is typically Leftist appropriation.  Of course that is part of what makes some us suspicious of your motives. You don’t seem to be aware or care about the history of Leftist groups trying to invade and recruit in our Radical Feminist community. You even come back with saying Marx has something to teach us, but what, that we already don’t know from early Lesbian Feminism?  And I still cannot believe you never seemed to have learned about basic classism, yet identify as a Radical Feminist. Why not try to learn before setting up this group with yourself as leader?

I explained in detail and don’t want to do it again. The group can see both our comments.

Your personal criticism of me is another diversion. I do not assume the worst.  I feel used for the weeks I spent on the phone with you and in writing to try to make your statement appeal more to Radical Feminists because the group you want to run does not follow Radical Feminist principles and it was obvious in the original statement.

Of course it’s suspicious that you did not want Tracy, who is a brilliant Black Radical Feminist, in the group, while inviting a woman who was your friend, you told the group was not a Radical Feminist.

No, Carol, why on earth are you telling me I have “blind spots” about my friends?  I should try to censor or reprimand women oppressed by racism who are trying to deal with it?  Why aren’t you concerned for them, and if you disagree, tell them directly?  And how does anything someone else says excuse Theresa’s level of abusive insults aimed at me?

Again, and for all in the group, talking to women like this (below) is NOT Radical Feminist.  Neither is Ann telling us we should be grateful that Theresa who is being so abusive to us is in the group.  How can anyone feel safe then?

Theresa admits she does not know me, but says this, and has not answered why:

Theresa El-Amin:

“Bev,

 

I have no idea who you are. You’re rude, crude and insulting. Your behavior has nothing to do with being a radical feminist as a political description. 

 

I know just plain nuts when I hear and see it. That’s my assessment of people who think their mean insults will make others respond by doing what they say.

 

How ridiculous. Get lost. I won’t be liberal with your foolishness.”

 

Theresa

Theresa El-Amin to Laura:

“So sad to see how disoriented and confused Laura is about what she is capable of influencing. Wish I had known her when she was less damaged by whatever happened to her.”

 

Theresa

 

You lecture me, Ann, but not only accept Theresa’s cruel slander, but immediately afterward laud her. Then you tell me you’re sorry I missed the meeting?  Do you understand that I will never again choose to be in an abusive situation, which you are encouraging?

I keep worrying about women we don’t know about who might have joined or did join and left because of bad treatment, because it’s only a coincidence that I found out about Tracy and Laura.

For all those here, who are just glad you’re not in their line of fire, your turn will come.  Good luck.

Meanwhile, we will continue working for our international Radical Feminist movement, as I have since I was 19, 48 years ago.

Bev

Ann M	Sat, Sep 22, 4:52 PM (7 hours ago)
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Sherri,

I have explained this more than once, though with so many emails I understand if you missed it.  To clarify once again, Tracy didn’t ask to “join” as such; she asked for the call-in number only after I declined to agree to accuse the two women of racism publicly at the next meeting.  She said she would do so herself then and asked for the phone number.  That sounded to me like she was interested in the fight but not in the project itself.

If a majority of women want an investigation to go forward I suggest the following:

(1) First, check with Linda and Lois to see if they even want to remain in the group in the face of such an investigation. Lois already told us she would gladly leave so we already have her answer.  We haven’t heard from Linda – her email address was written down incorrectly, though when that was pointed out to me, I forwarded a bunch of emails to her so she would know what is going on.  Still haven’t heard from her.  Maybe someone who knows her can try to reach her and check.  If they both leave, there is no reason to have an investigation. Our energy is then freed up to finish up our principles and discuss solidarity actions on behalf of Tina Beacock and others who have been victimized by the misogynist forces that are all around us.

(2) If Linda and Lois want to stay in, then we appoint a couple of women to investigate, hopefully women who have not already made up their minds about whether or not they are guilty of racism.  It would help to have not only the evidence already provided, but actually what the charges are in writing. and obtain their side of the story.   Once there is an investigation, recommendations can be made and the group can decide what actions to take, if any.

I don’t recommend doing this as I don’t think the first thing a group in formation should be doing is put women on trial within the group and/or censure, expel, or otherwise force women out, unless under the most extreme circumstances (such as a person being accused of being an actual Klan member or Nazi, or being a physical danger to one of its members).  I also don’t think it is necessarily the best way in most circumstances to raise consciousness about racism or anything else.

But I am willing to stand aside and allow other women to make the decision.  I may have initiated this group, but it should be run by all of us.

Meanwhile, our subcommittee will be working on editing and finalizing the principles and making sure they include strong anti-racist language.

Also,  I want to make it clear that it is a bottom line for me, and I believe those on the editing committee that we take a strong stand supporting women’s rights to our own spaces, organizations, words, and programs.  This network must stand up and resist the attacks by supporters of transgender ideology against us which seek to colonize us, redefine what it means to be a woman and take away our hard fought rights.  If that was ever removed from the principles, I would  leave in a heartbeat.  There is no way I am going to allow this female only feminist group to be taken over by trans identified males.

Ann

…

C. A. B.	Sat, Sep 22, 4:55 PM (7 hours ago)
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Bev, I’m telling you you have blind spots because you obviously are very selective about whom you criticize and whom you don’t, and because you attribute very negative motives to some like Ann but not to others with whom you are aligned.  I did *not* say that you should censor or reprimand anyone, not did I say anything anyone said excused Theresa’s derogatory comments to you, in fact quite the opposite.  There is more than enough aggressive and manipulative behavior in this group to go around, thinly disguised as activism.  I am making no excuses for any of it. We have a long way to go to communicate more honestly, overcome double standards, and to build some trust.

Carol

coffee house	Sat, Sep 22, 5:03 PM (7 hours ago)
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Carol, again, can you describe what and who you are talking about when you say Bev’s friends have “negative motives”? Whose motives do you think are negative? Saying things without describing them isn’t helpful, I for one don’t know what you are talking about when you fail to identify specifics.

C. A. B.	Sat, Sep 22, 5:17 PM (7 hours ago)
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I did NOT say anyone had negative motives; I’m not convinced they do.  I said Bev attributed negative motives to Ann but not to others (read statement below). As I said earlier, attributing motives to people is an inappropriate invasion of boundaries as it isn’t possible for any of us to divine someone else’s motives, we can only infer them from their behavior.  The more responsible choice is to observe the behavior and then ask the person what her reason is for behaving the way she is and what she is trying to accomplish (motive).

…

Laura Akers <	Sat, Sep 22, 5:34 PM (6 hours ago)
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Carol do you intend to Clarify which one of us engaged in Insulting, Aggressive, Abusive behaviors? Did you see how Bev provided exact words written to clarify what she believed to be abusive? Please provide your evidence (exact quotes) in an email Just as Bev did or are you merely hurling unfounded accusations?

C. A. B.		Sep 22, 2018, 5:41 PM (6 hours ago)
Hmm. Interesting questions. The reason I don’t engage in a lot of direct criticism is I don’t think it’s very productive as it just makes people angry and defensive. I prefer to talk about the process.  I think you and Laura have made some good points about radical feminism, which I will think about.  Thanks for that.  Don’t mistake my objection to how things are presented as rejection of your point of view.  I would like to hear more about the way you all view these issues.  Carol

Laura Akers <	Sep 22, 2018, 5:55 PM (6 hours ago)
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It seems Carol that you are actually refusing to substantiate things you have said. And this is what Ann is doing as well such as when she stated that I demanded she Exile Lois Kay and Linda Calder from the group…and just most recently lied about Tracy yet refused to provide evidence of her statements. You are co signing that Carol by refusing to ask Ann to provide evidence of things she is saying. You don’t believe in direct confrontation of behaviors when they are not in line with Radical Feminism? How then would we ever be able to ensure that Radical Feminism is being put into practice within Radical Feminist groups? Do you also hold a similar position to Theresea that TIMS who do not participate in Trans Politics pose no issue or harm to women or women’s rights? Do you believe it is Ann’s right to Decide & Determine what Racism Is or Isn’t? What is you opinion on the conversation between Ann and Tracy Neal? I just posted it on the other thread. Do you contend that Ann was validated to deny her entry into the group?

Anyone with real integrity stands by what they say out of their mouth and has no problem backing it up with Proof which is what all of us women who came here to discuss the racism have done.

Sherri Golden	Sat, Sep 22, 7:11 PM (5 hours ago)
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Thank you for letting me know the date on her acknowledging TiMs as “transwomen”, Bev. I am friends with quite a few black radical feminists and I can’t remember one referring to them as such. Carol, I found your statement on the call last night about wishing we could just get back to a harmonious group once again very disconcerting.  How could we ever do that when the victims of racists continue to be portrayed as “attackers”? This is pretty unrelated, and I certainly don’t want to take away from the seriousness of the racism issue here, but personally I’m feeling déjà vu of sorts. When we attended the SF Dyke March and were physically attacked by TRAs we were accused of being the actual attackers by TRAs, a complete reversal of the truth. Imagine how that must have felt for us, having varying degrees of PTSD as a result of said attacks, then being verbally attacked on top of it afterwards. Now take that feeling and multiply it by 10 and maybe you can begin to sympathize with how these woc feel, who, mind you,  provided actual evidence via numerous screenshots,  yet were repeatedly admonished and dismissed. Notice also that I said sympathize versus empathize. Because of our white privilege we can never fully empathize because we will never experience the levels of oppression that they do. It seems to me that certain womyn in this group claiming certain stances are making it very, very clear what their true stances are, and I’m so very disappointed in this. Tracy and Laura both deserve sincere apologies, and the main two who should be issuing them, in my opinion, are Ann and Theresa. What OF this investigation of these two racist womyn, Ann? It’s clearly not heresy or “she said” bashing of womyn when the evidence is right here for all to see. How many of you HAVE even taken the time to read it all before you started throwing insults? I guess very few. And this speaks volumes to me.

—–Original Message—–
From: Theresa El-Amin <>
To: Tamara Tornado <>
Cc: Carol A B >; >
Sent: Sat, Sep 22, 2018 10:16 pm
Subject: Re: Male allies & “transwomen”

This is illuminating. Perhaps, I don’t belong in this group. If your view of radical feminism is an anti-gender nonconforming position, it’s not my position. Revolutionary Feminism in the Black Radical Tradition I come from does not exclude gender nonconforming persons from the movement to end capitalism, imperialism, patriarchy and white supremacy. The anti-left rhetoric or what is sometimes called red baiting is not something I can support.

Diversity is clearly not possible in FIST, if you hold a hard line and narrow definition of radical feminism. I think women from oppressed nationalities who consider themselves revolutionary feminists would be very unlikely to join FIST.

I see a need to distinguish the radical/revolutionary feminism I subscribe to from the feminism you call radical which is based solely on denying the self-determination of gender nonconforming persons.

There is an LGBT movement fighting gender oppression. Are you opposed to groups led by women of color like Southerners On New Ground (SONG)? SONG is celebrating its 25th anniversary. I collaborate with them in the broader revolutionary movement against capitalism, imperialism, patriarchy and white supremacy. I’m clear about what it would take for me to be free as a Black woman.

I envision a convergence of movements to transform society so that every human being will be free from all systems of oppression. I think revolutionary feminists must take the lead with the clarity of ending all forms of oppression.

Whiteness is likely to be an ongoing problem for FIST, if I’m understanding this theory of radical feminism that all members of FIST are expected to subscribe to.

I thought my position on this was clear to Ann when we discussed this after her resignation from Solidarity.

Truly,

Theresa El-Amin

—–Original Message—–
From: ‘Bev’ via Feminists in Struggle <
To:
Subject: Re: Male allies & “transwomen”

Theresa,

This is Ann’s fault since she is adamant against the trans cult and knows “LGBT” does not represent Lesbians.  Might as well add KKK to that list. They are our oppressors.

She should have told you. She did tell us you weren’t a Radical Feminist and then lied about it. But you proved it.

If you support and believe the male con about trans, then no, you are not a Radical Feminist. It’s basic.

“Gender non-conforming” is not about trans. Women who refuse to obey male rules about male-identified femininity are not trans. I am one of them.  The trans cult hates us and is erasing us.  Why don’t you know this and why are you combining us with our worst enemies?

Also, you are het but use the female-hating and Butch-hating term “gender non-conforming,” which makes us the outsider/freaks with the women accepting male-identified femininity as the norm. This is not about race. Some of the most outspoken women working against the trans cult are African-descent as can be seen in Reena Walker’s facebook group, Misogyny Exposed. Most of the most courageous speaking out in my Lesbian community are also African-descent.

It’s true that women from oppressed nationalities would not join FIST because Ann does not want them, but has said repeatedly she wants a US national group, for no reason I understand. They also would not join since FIST seems clearly to be not Radical Feminist.  However, in our Radical Feminist group, we do have women from over ten countries and contacts with others.

Bev

Sherri Golden	Sat, Sep 22, 11:37 PM (20 hours ago)
to

Using the term “transwoman” only contributes to female erasure by acknowledging their demand to be seen as women. TiF is the commonly used acronym for a Trans Identifying Female. Many non radical feminists are indeed becoming aware of these terms and it’s imperative that radical feminists use the correct terminology so as not to be complicit in our own erasure and bring light to it. These conversations aren’t easy, as conversations on RACE equally aren’t easy, but they all need to be had to get to the ROOT.

Sherri Golden	2:37 PM (6 hours ago)
to

———- Forwarded message ———
From: Sherri Golden<>
Date: Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: Male allies & “transwomen”
To: Bev <
Cc: Theresa El-Amin , Tamara Tornado <,

I really can’t add much more to it than Bev already so clearly did, although the trans movement is all about enforcing Gender norms. I’m not sure who you’re referring to, Theresa, when you state we’re against gender nonconforming womyn being a part of radical feminism because that is most certainly one of the most basic tenets. We staunchly reject heteropatriarchal gender stereotypes and clearly wish to abolish them. This is nothing new and has been around since the dawn of radical feminism in the 60s. Lesbians who are Gender nonconforming have also always been ON the front lines of this movement, and I am also one. With all due respect as a woc, you keep bringing up the black radical feminist circles you’ve been a part of. Although we are indeed white, we do have black lesbian radical feminist friends who we listen to closely and respect for their lives experience, and they have expressly NOT been repeating the same trans-positive dogma you’ve been preaching here.

…

On Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 3:19 PM K Scarbrough <> wrote:

I do not agree with Bev’s narrowly focused definition of radical feminism.  I don’t think any of us believe it is possible to change your sex.  But this isn’t what Bev seems to suggest when she says “If you support and believe the male con about trans, then no, you are not a Radical Feminist.”  I don’t find “gender non-conforming” to be a  “female-hating and Butch-hating term.”  I feel rather proud to be gender non-conforming.  To me it means I reject the male supremacist notion of femininity.

 

Furthermore, I don’t think it is up to any one person to say who does or does not belong in FIST.  Absent any violations of the principles, can we agree to self select regarding participation in this group??  And Bev, although you seem to have a number of difficulties with several FIST participants, don’t consider FIST to be radical feminist, I see you haven’t yet opted out.

Kathy Scarbrough

Sherri Golden	5:46 PM (2 hours ago)
to

———- Forwarded message ———
From: Sherri Golden <>
Date: Sun, Sep 23, 2018, 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: Male allies & “transwomen”
To: K Scarbrough <>
Cc: <

It’s all about context, Kathy, and you quoting Bev in the manner you did took it way out of context. You conveniently dismissed the paragraph she wrote right above that:

“”Gender non-conforming” is not about trans. Women who refuse to obey male rules about male-identified femininity are not trans. I am one of them.  The trans cult hates us and is erasing us.  Why don’t you know this and why are you combining us with our worst enemies?”

The term gender nonconforming, which the 3 of us DO seem to be in agreement about the definition, and our pride in being so, has been grossly and negligently misconstrued and redefined by queer and trans ideology TO demonize and “other” us, yet, ironically enough, on the reverse side of the coin, has also become a catch-all phrase for anyone who feels “special” to call oneself, in particular those of the trans community. In reality they only serve to reinforce patriarchal gender stereotypes. When gender nonconforming is uttered by liberal heterosexual womyn it can also be interpreted in the same light by true gender nonconforming lesbians. It basically contributes to our erasure much in the same way as acknowledging Trans Identifying Males as transwoMEN, nullifying the very definition of woman, therefore erasing us as a protected class. Language IS crucial, and as radical feminists we must be very selective in this day and age in how we utilize it. It’s imperative.

Sherri Golden	1:47 PM (6 hours ago)
to

Theresa,

In reply to your emails directed at me, and specifically this comment:

“I know of some Black trans women who oppose the violence and threats some of you have experienced. They support the right of women born women to come together based on the reasons we agree on. They are fighting to stay alive not to claim any special privileges over women born women. Btw, I oppose all violence based on people trying to live their lives as they determine they want to live their lives. “

If these “Black trans women” were indeed concerned about our safeties and rights as natal womyn (and I really shouldn’t have to define us as such because there is only one definition of woman, no matter how hard they attempt to identify into it), then they wouldn’t be using the word woman in defining themselves, nor advocating to invade female protected spaces. Their issues are entirely separate from ours and are not issues that radical feminists focus on in any form, except in respect to protecting ourselves from their demands. You stated that we all stand together as women oppressed by patriarchy (not your exact words but I’m unable to view your reply as I type this), but that isn’t the definition of a radical feminist. Liberal feminists very easily fall into that generalized definition. Liberal feminists are very Leftist in their leanings and with your support of Steve Bloom, and Trans Identifying MALES, aka TiMs, the very ones threatening female sovereignty and safety on every imaginable level, I very much perceive you as a liberal feminist. We are not Facebook friends, yet I did take the liberty to review your page and found absolutely zero radical feminist leaning posts. I am very active on Facebook in radical feminist circles and have been for years, have had my own groups that I run there and another social media platform, and have engaged in much radical feminist discourse. The viewpoints and opinions I’ve been hearing and reading from many within this group do not ring true as radical feminist to me. The last sentence in your statement above raises serious red flags in me. What violence against TiMs can you present? I know of absolutely none whatsoever. Yet the violence toward womyn and lesbians is happening left and right. There’s no fence riding if you’re a radical feminist. We KNOW this is male pattern violence, and some of us, like myself, know this firsthand. I watched quite a bit of that panel with Steve Bloom and what I heard from him and other supposed “radical feminists” were that they fully support “transwomen” and radical feminists, and if we just talk it out everything will be A-Ok. That isn’t radical feminism. Biological males belong in male spaces. Period. Or the billionaires behind their well funded movement can erect new trans spaces for them. It isn’t rocket science and many radical feminists like myself HAVE tried, many, many times, until we’re blue in the face, to “talk it out”, engage in any kind of rational discourse, to no avail. They want to dominate, eradicate, erase us. I don’t know how much clearer I can make this and I’m wondering why I even need to explain these basic concepts in a group that I presumed was radical feminist. The majority of radfems have already left the room.

Theresa El-Amin	7:58 PM (49 minutes ago)
to

Greetings All,

Sorry that I misunderstood who you are and what you stand for. This is not the group for me. I have relationships with people fighting systems of oppression that go way beyond your issue of no such thing as trans. Definitely not a priority for me in my commitment to liberation for all.

I’m out. Delete me from the conversation. Hope to speak with Ann at some point.

Thank you.

Theresa El-Amin

Sherri Golden	8:30 PM (19 minutes ago)
to

I wish you well in your endeavors, Theresa, but before you go, I urge you to read this list. These issues of “ours” ARE issues of ours, collectively, as women and girls. I hope this is grounds for deep introspection in the future of where your loyalties truly lie, because this does indeed affect you, on many, many levels.

https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2013/07/11/transgender-rights-the-elimination-of-the-human-rights-of-women

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 23, 2018, at 4:03 PM, Sherri Golden <> wrote

And Theresa, in response to:

“There is an LGBT movement fighting gender oppression. Are you opposed to groups led by women of color like Southerners On New Ground (SONG)? SONG is celebrating its 25th anniversary. I collaborate with them in the broader revolutionary movement against capitalism, imperialism, patriarchy and white supremacy. I’m clear about what it would take for me to be free as a Black woman.”

As a radical feminist, I am strongly opposed to gender, which is a social construct created by patriarchy. Gender nonconforming lesbians are not represented or protected whatsoever by the LGBT “umbrella”. I have no idea why the “L” still remains within that acronym. I was physically attacked THREE separate times within one Dyke march by said umbrella members, my partner attacked once,  simply for marching with signs. I am fully supportive of any woc organizing for the rights of womyn, however. There’s a HUGE difference between the former and the latter.

On Sep 23, 2018 8:57 PM, Ann Menasche <> wrote:

Sherry,

I know how you were attacked and how lesbians have been marginalized and betrayed.  It’s outrageous and we need to defeat the forces that would erase women and lesbians.

My vision is to create a national network of radical feminists who don’t all have to think exactly alike on everything but can unite to defend women under attack as you were under attack, as Tina was attacked, as Carol, Rochelle and I have been attacked by promoters of transgender ideology.

If we draw the lines too broadly by accepting women who deny our right to self organize as females and who think that “transwomen are women” -the same as us though “more oppressed,” TIMs will  course take over and destroy our group’s capacity to fight for female liberation in any form.

But If we draw the lines too narrowly as you and Bev seem to be supporting we will undercut our ability to launch a serious fight back.

This group should be able to welcome a range of views. No one who agrees with the principles of unity should be excluded from this group.  Those principles of unity must include in my opinion gender abolition, lesbian rights, the right of females to our own organizations, language, spaces and programs, reproductive rights, anti racism, and rejection of alliances with the far Right.

In this horrible and dangerous climate for women, in  my opinion it is not a good idea to divide our forces more than absolutely necessary.

In sisterhood,

Ann

Rfch <@yahoo.com>

Reply|

Yesterday, 9:31 PM

You;

Ann Me (@gmail.com);

Sherri Golden (@gmail.com);

+6 more

That’s fine, but then don’t bill it as a radical feminist group. Radical feminists don’t entertain the idea that TIMs are women, or oppressed. 

 

You don’t need to gut radical feminism to build said network.

Bev <

Reply|

Yesterday, 9:58 PM

You;

+5 more

Ann, 

What lines have Sherri and I drawn “too narrowly”?  No one who believes man are women?  No racism? No keeping out Radical Feminists who object to racism? Not allowing cruel insults in the group?  What else?  

Bev

Ann  <>

Reply|

+6 more

Some things I believe:

Men are never women and cannot become women.  Men who put on “feminine” attire, take hormones, have surgeries or otherwise attempt to pass as women are not women or any closer to women than any other men, because being female is a sex not a role.

People who visibly step outside of gender role norms for their sex, trans identified or not, can experience discrimination, harassment and male violence though this is the result of their visible  gender nonconformity, and/or for appearing gay, not for the trans identity itself.  This is a form of oppression as a secondary product of female oppression. However in many ways “transitioning” is an act of conformity not non-conformity.

Some men including some TIMs can sometimes be allies to feminists but their understanding and  commitment cannot be a deep as ours.

What Bev Jo refers to as the radical feminist view of class and Marxist understanding of class are two parts of the same elephant and both have something to offer with regard to understanding class oppression.

Women can be socialist and radical feminists at the same time as long as their politics centers women.

There is no such thing as a “male” or “female” brain.

I’ve used the terms “transwomen” and “TIM” depending on my audience and which way I think I can communicate most effectively and help win people over to my position.

Though there are some mostly nuances of differences between myself and Bev Jo yet I suspect that Bev and perhaps Sherry would define me out of radical feminism.  That’s what I mean by too narrow.

We should define a set of basic principles and anyone who agrees with them despite other differences should be welcome.

Ann

Rfch <>

Reply|

Today, 12:19 AM

+6 more

Ann, please tell me if you think Steve Bloom’s treatment of women in this video is consistent with allyship?

https://youtu.be/oyFeSsZyG28

Ann Me <>

Reply|

+6 more

Whether someone is an ally is not always black and white. Steve does not have a complete understanding of transgender politics. But he is a big believer in democracy and debate and not silencing anyone. He also recognizes that women are oppressed based on sex and that we have the right to self organize and have our own organizations and spaces outside of the presence of TIMs.

In March of 2017 I was badly attacked on the internet by a group of transactivists on FB  who called me a “Nazi” and “rapist” and then three of them contacted my employer and tried to get me fired from my job. I worked with Steve and Tina in gathering signatures to a Statement opposing the harassment of radical feminists.  That signature ad was published in the Dec 2017 Jan 2018 issue of the Progressive Magazine.  Steve was responsible for getting a lot of those signatures and helping out with the ad.  That counts for something.

Steve was specifically there at the Left Forum to talk about the ad. I would have been first choice but I couldn’t make it to New York.

He also had my back this past year when I was attacked by fellow socialists for my gender critical views.  That counts for something too.

Ann

Rfch <>

Reply|

Today, 12:55 AM

+6 more

Does that response mean “not in that video, no”?

Ann Me<>

Reply|

Today, 10:41 AM

+6 more

I re-listened to Steve’s talk which is consistent with his politics as I understand them.  There is no simple yes or no answer to your question.

Again, Steve, like virtually all males, even the best of them, has a difficult time understanding gender as a hierarchical completely “made up” system of oppression. They are too invested in it, a semi conscious belief in the idea that there is something “natural” for most women about traditional “femininity”.

His belief that there is something progressive and cutting edge about transgenderism is in my opinion dead wrong. Transgenderism and gender ideology is completely reactionary and antifeminist. Only a radical feminist understanding of gender roles, gender hierarchy and gender nonconformity is on the mark.  He is also attempting to find a middle ground that supports everyone’s rights that doesn’t exist.

Men will never lead in an ideological understanding of female oppression – only feminists can do that.

But Steve does take a stand in his talk defending radical feminists against no platforming, smears and threats of violence. He calls for open democratic discussion and debate which is precisely what transactivists with the support of most of the Left want to shut down. Opening up the debate and ending the silencing and threats is extremely helpful in winning over other women who should be on our side in this and giving them the courage to speak out.

Though he doesn’t get into it in his talk, he also supports our right to our own organizations and spaces which is the most important of our rights being threatened by this ideology. He recognizes the existence of sex based oppression that transactivists are subsuming into gender and erasing.

This makes him an ally with limitations. Allies like Steve can be useful but it is only women coming together from our differing radical feminist traditions that can turn this situation around.

Ann

Rfch <>

Today, 10:54 AM

It’s not about his views on the trans issue, it’s about the way he speaks to and at women who know a hell of a lot more than he does. You didn’t find that jarring?

laura akers

Reply|

Today, 10:57 AM

+7 more

Women on that panel…. working to organize this very group…. sat silently while Steve Mansplained a real RF, in fact the most Radical Feminist woman in that building that day from what I can see. And that is why RF’s who are unpacking on those deeper levels know that working with men is going to lead to nothing.

There are few true male allies and those who are true are not found within our circles, rather they are out addressing men & male behaviors. Clearly you & these other women are willing to strike a deal with mansplainers in the name of progress. To me that is deluded, destructive & will NEVER result in Liberation from Patriarchy.

Sherri Golden <>

Reply|

Today, 12:51 PM

+5 more

I completely agree with what Laura said after finishing watching it myself. He was very disrespectful to say the least. I don’t see this going anywhere. And Anne, you finally did reply to me in the other email that Laura is not cc’d in, yet you continue to avoid the questions I’ve asked at least 3 times now, on the call and within email. Is the evidence provided by Laura on the 2 racists in question going to be used for the proposed investigation, and why wasn’t Tracy added to the group/did you ask her why she wanted to join?

Sherri

Bev <>

Reply|

Today, 1:21 PM

+5 more

Ann, my Radical Feminism is not “narrow.”  What defines you out for me, Ann, is how you ran this group with dishonesty — telling us Theresa was not a Radical Feminist (without saying why) and then saying you never said that when you had, and clearly you knew she believes men can be women, plus how abusive she can be.  You’ve been caught in being unethical and seem to be trying to divert by blaming Sherri and me by mis-identifying us.

“What Bev Jo refers to as the radical feminist view of class and Marxist understanding of class are two parts of the same elephant and both have something to offer with regard to understanding class oppression.”

No, you who didn’t even include classism in your statement until I helped and seems still to have no understanding of classism, including trying to appropriate working class identity because you were around working class people growing up shows you have not yet learned that part of basic Lesbian Feminism.  You’re appropriating again. You have no right to tell a working class Radical Feminist who has been writing about classism among us since 1973 doesn’t know the difference between Lesbian Feminist politics and Marxism.  Please bother to learn if you are going to continue trying to run RF groups.  At least then you could be an ally as opposed to oppressor.

“Socialist” can mean many things. But no, I don’t think someone who identifies separately as a socialist in addition to Radical Feminist is Radical Feminist. What part of the best of socialism isn’t in Radical Feminism?  Why haven’t you yet shown that you know about or understand the history of socialist organizations trying to recruit and take over Lesbian Feminist communities?  If “socialist” means working in organizations with such offensive men as Steve Bloom, as he claims some kind of honorary RF indentification and the group keeps genuflecting to men appropriating our identity, then that explains why the two politics cannot work together.

No, of course there are separate female and male brains, which I’ve already explained to you, with the rest of this.  That unscientific politics was used by het feminists to claim women were as good as men. And then somehow used to prove men can be women when in fact it proves the opposite.  In reality, men are far more disconnected, which is part of why they are violent beyond any socialization or attempts by women to change them. The two brain hemispheres in women are connected, and women’s capacity for thinking, love, and compassion is far more than men’s. 

I will never genuflect to het men in drag by saying they experience any form of oppression. They are worshiped all over the media because everyone still knows they are men, and in real life they take on and off their drag when it suits them.  They have no idea the violence girls and women get from men and boys. And they don’t care. I have never seen one be an ally, but the harm is irreparable, to have women and even Lesbians fighting over them.

Women pretending to be men do get privilege at our expense and in the Bay Area, I see it all the time.

Bev

Andrea Hout <>

Reply|

Today, 1:36 PM

You;

);

+7 more

I have been silent as I am not expert on the subjects discussed and feel it is time to speak up. I am a socialist feminist who wants to build a strong movement in support of women’s equality, rights to meet, to safe spaces, and against hormone treatment for prepubescents, and against imposed patriarchal gender roles. However I see the recent debate, to reduce allies to those who can pass a narrowly defined radical feminist bar, reduce members to those who adher to (again a narrowly defined) definition of radical feminism, and the vitriolic treatment of sisters in the process of trying to build this group with expectations of trials before the group is formed, before there are bylaws, are all very big problems. Hope we decide women, who in our overwhelming majority are not radical feminists, can be in a group we build. Could we have a wing or caucus that is radical feminist?

Andrea

Sherri Golden>

|Today, 2:14 PM

Ann, you did indeed tell all of us on the first teleconference that Theresa is not a radical feminist, so I’m wondering why now you’re denying this. It raised red flags for me even then, causing me to wonder why the need to bring in a woc who is not a radical feminist to represent the needs and perspectives of woc when a radical feminist woc could easily be asked to fill such a role. That’s when I began to question just how many woc were in this group.

I take offense to the many comments from womyn here positioning Bev and I as taking a “holier-than-thou” radical feminist stance, when in essence we’re only expecting basic radical feminist tenets, which we should all be aware of AS radical feminists. Yes, radical feminists should hold themselves to higher standards, but these are well known. 

I found the herstory lesson and bit condescending and reeking of the classism Bev has addressed multiple times, and of which I’ve seen utilized several times with womyn talking down from their place of class privilege.

You somehow expect us all to come together harmoniously from different radical feminist perspectives, yet continuously fail to address the serious issue that has caused all the distress, the two racist womyn in question, of which much proof has been submitted by Laura. I have seen so many white womyn refuse to respond to this and wonder how many have even taken the time to review the many screenshots. If this is an anti-racist group, which certainly we can all agree is fundamental to radical feminism, then why have my, Laura, Tracy and Bev’s continuous requests to have this dealt with in some fashion been ignored over and over? Expecting racists to just fade into the woodwork is unreasonable to say the least, and stating that it didn’t happen in this group, making it irrelevant is just preposterous.

Your white privilege and unwillingness to examine it is glaringly obvious, and frankly embarrassing for me, as a white womon who strives to unpack her own ingrained and internalized racism. The blatant disrespect shown to Laura and Tracy within this group is appalling. I suggested an apology to them, yet no one is even willing to review the evidence provided, let alone get around to swallowing their white pride and admitting they were wrong. Shame on you all. Seriously. I am way beyond disappointed in the way things have been handled in this group-that’s-not-a-group-yet. 

Rfch <>

Reply|

+7 more

So do that, and don’t make radical feminists responsible for any outcomes that are not consistent with radical feminism by appropriating the name for a group whose politics aren’t in alignment with the theory or praxis. Radical feminists are still paying for the missteps of WoLF.

Simple.

Though of course I think aligning with the theory and praxis in the purpose of the mission is best for women, it seems unlikely to be the result.

Christina

Andrea H <>

|

Today, 2:43 PM

To be clear, I’m not interested in being a member of an exclusive and tiny group of women who not only do not know how to reach out to a broader layer of women and allies but the opposite: to attack and divide among the small group we do have, reducing and demoralizing one another. I appeal to all of you: we need a broader, bigger, more inclusive movement than is being discussed, or we’ll wind up with a narrow ineffective groupette.

Andrea

Bev <>

|

Today, 2:48 PM

I agree with Christina, Laura, Tracy, and Sherri.  

I do not know why anyone is begging Theresa to stay when she has been horrifically insulting for no reason, refused to explain, and does not know Radical Feminism or our history — other than having a token willing to betray Tracy and Laura and anyone else oppressed by racism is convenient for the Euro-descent women in this group. 

The ongoing classism is astounding, but you don’t care, do you?  

Ann, you work with men, and it’s nice your friend, Steve, helped you, but he has no place on a panel about Radical Feminism. You’re confusing your friendship and alliance with him with what Radical Feminists should be doing with men. And that is just one of the problems of trying to work with socialists involved with men and male movements — you are too intertwined to see it. You actually recommended that insulting video. 

Radical Feminists are wasting our time here.  They aren’t even open to including all Radical Feminists across the earth, which would increase numbers of class and race-oppressed women, plus younger women. Maybe too hard to manipulate?  

Bev

Bev <>

|

Today, 2:50 PM

Then do not lie and call it Radical Feminist.  This group, that was almost all class and race-privileged could not be more exclusive. 

Some of us were trying to make it inclusive, but there are plenty of fake feminist groups around. This was touted as Radical Feminist.

We would not have bothered if we knew how un-Radical Feminist it was.

Bev

pirate jenny	3:43 AM (11 hours ago)

Theresa–incredibly bummed that you have decided to leave us–though I can understand your frustration with the kinds of attacks and “more radical than thou” posts that have been flying about.

For myself, I have seen this attempt to organize a coalition of those defining themselves as “Radical Feminist” as extremely daunting, given the nature of the different beliefs and histories involved among the groups we come out of. At the same time, I have seen this very ambitious, even heroic attempt to organize such a coalition as a real necessity, given the attacks on women and feminism that are currently escalating.

I believe that to understand what has been going on in these discouraging threads, we must acknowledge the historical development of at least two tendencies claiming the name “Radical Feminism”. One is the original tendency of the “women’s liberation” branch of early second wave feminism as evidenced by such groups as New York Radical Women and Redstockings–groups that broke with the “male left” in order to form an “independent Women’s Liberation movement” but retained their understanding of capitalism as an insurmountable obstacle if ALL women were to achieve liberation. A tendency arising toward the end of that ‘radical feminist’ period was, at the time, called “cultural feminism” and it was more involved with creating separate women’s communities and counterculture, “women’s spirituality” and wasn’t into fighting capitalism.

As the original radical feminism faded in influence and visibility due to the media-driven takeover of feminsm by liberals (Gloria Steinem et al), the cultural strain claimed the name: “Radical Feminism” (I call these two strains “Radical Feminism 1” and “Radical Feminism 2”). Interestingly, both radical feminisms, after years of “not talking” have come to similar conclusions about the necessity of fighting the erasure of women posed by the trans cult–and there have been attempts to form alliances–the recent conference in Chicago being one of them.

Continuing with this brief history: “Radical Feminism 2” also took much of its impetus from Andrea Dworkin’s work with its emphasis on men’s violence against women and de-emphasized the need to change the economic system to one more favorable to women’s needs. That is why to this day, you will see descendant-groups of “Radical Feminism 1” (such as National Women’s Liberation) emphasizing the economic issues women face and trying to organize socialist-type solutions to free us, and “Radical Feminism 2” emphasizing the men’s physical violence against us (of course many women try  to combine the two tendencies in various ways).

This very important history is well documented inAlice Echols’ “Daring to be Bad: Radcial Feminism in America 1967-1975.” It’s the most thorough documentation of this history to date and I STRONGLY urge everyone on this list to read it, as it will shed a lot of light on the huge conflicts existing today between women calling themselves “radical feminists” which we have been witnessing. I think that in order for us ever to be anything like a combined force, these differences in approach must be acknowledged and examined.

And into this unresolved mess, you have walked, Theresa, coming, from yet a third strain of feminism–one which, it seems to me, comes out of the tradition of Frances Beal’s “Third World Women’s Alliance” which she and others organized in the later days of the Student Non Violent Coordinating Committee as a response to the sexist Nationalism of parts of the Black Power Movement and which morphed into an organization welcoming all WOC and emphasizing the relationship of their oppression as both POC and women to U.S. colonialism/imperialism. (I interviewed Frances Beal at length in an early Joy of Resistance show and also learned much of this history from Redstockings women such as Kathie Sarachild–an original radical feminist who is on this list–and Carol Giardina). There are others on this list, such as Ninotchka Rosca, who are part of anti-imperialist tendencies in feminism–and are leading in the prostitution-abolition movment as a result of the enslavement-to-prostitution of Phillipinas that came with the U.S. imperialist takeover of their country and its attendant plethora U.S. military bases whose soldiers had to be “serviced”).

I can’t help thinking of how thrilling and important it could be if all of these various strains could be brought together in one coalition!!! Yes, different “languages” are being spoken and different traditions drawn from. But what if we could explore both the commonalities we share and the differences between us and our various histories and come up with a workable group? So many possibilities here for learning and developing for all of us.

I think that our in-process statement of purpose of FIST covers many, if not most, of the important issues coming out of all the strands of radical feminism. It could be made better and become a touch-stone for what we agree on that would enable us to work together. I sincerely hope you might reconsider your departure from FIST, and, with a commitment from others to respectfully explore the differences that exist among us, continue to bring your critically important perspective to this important attempt.

Thanks for reading,

Fran

Theresa El-Amin
7:20 AM (8 hours ago)
to

Sherri,

I will read the list. Ann has asked me to reconsider. I believe we need a diverse Women’s Liberation Movement that includes women of color. Women who understand oppression, particularly working class women of color, are not likely to hold the position that there is no such thing as trans while we agree that women born women have a right to our own spaces.

I understand why the term TERF is used to describe women who think like you. I’m learning a lot. The term TIM is a new one for me.

Let’s see what happens when I speak with Ann about code of conduct issues.

Ann Menasche	8:39 AM (6 hours ago)
to

I really do hope you reconsider.

“TERF” however is used not just against women with a particular approach to radical feminist politics or to how to fight transgender ideology. It is used against any woman who recognizes that women are oppressed based on our sex and who asserts the primacy of our own needs including our right to our own spaces, programs, language etc. it is misogynistic hate speech, the new “witch”, nothing more.

And thanks Fran for that bit of history. But there were many women, myself included, that drew strength and wisdom from both approaches to radical feminism. They never really were either/or.

Radical lesbian feminists for example were often anti capitalists and feminist and lesbian/gay rights activists.  5000 women led the Lesbian  and Gay parade in 1977 in San Francisco. And lesbians were central leaders of the fight for the ERA and later, against the Briggs Initiative in 1978.

The women’s music and culture that came out of that time was quite political and supported the activism of the feminist movement – the female equivalent to Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie and the Weavers.

Toward the end of this period, I helped start a lesbian feminist organization in the late 1980s that lasted into the 1990s which read and studied feminist books, helped organize Take Back the Night marches and worked in the abortion rights movement. We also marched as a lesbian contingent in lesbian/gay pride and in peace marches during the first Gulf War.

African American women were in the center of this flowering of feminist thought, culture and community in the 1970s and 80s – Andre Lorde, Pat Parker and Linda Tillery come to mind.

I believe it really is time for all of us to come together, learn from each other and organize a serious fight back. As Bev Jo told me when we had lunch together some months ago, much more unites us than divides us. Our lives and whether young women will have any future at all depend on us being able to do this.

Ann

Laura Akers <	9:36 AM (5 hours ago)

You can give any history lesson you wish on Radical Feminism but at the end of the day you all had Evidence & Real Live Proof of Linda Calder and Lois Kay’s association with & defense of Laurin Crosson. You had recent screen shots of Linda Calder saying she loves Laurin and they are in a Relationship. Lois Kay continues to support Linda Calder to date. You had Real Proof & Lots of it… that Laurin Crosson is a Rachel Dolezel and even claims to be Racially profiled by Police. You have Lots of real Proof that Laurin Crosson victimizes vulnerable women & one of her victims, a black woman, sharing shocking events, including Laurin’s collusion with a male doctor who is engaging in Fetish. And I see you gave ZERO historical account of the ways in which the Left has worked to harm the RF movement.

You women speaking up flat out refuse to acknowledge the validity of our concerns. You are fragile white women.

Not a Single One of you including Theresa ever said ANYTHING in email about these associations beyond “should an investigation be conducted “…….What do you even need to investigate? I already did all the investigative work for you…but ya’ll can’t even be bothered to acknowledge it.  Instead you all just keep hi-siding and apologizing to Theresa…..as though that will make you less of a Racist. Lol

Ann you are a liar & there isn’t ANYTHING RADICAL about lying on women who call you out on your bullshit.

Every woman here who fails to speak up on behalf of Laurin Crosson victims & about Laurin Crosson’s racist misogynistic behavior is giving her consent & support to Laurin and her friends. PERIOD. Thus far you are all Racists & showing yourself willing to harbor & defend other racists.

 Silence is Consent.

Laura Akers

9:53 AM (5 hours ago)

Additionally You Women All had PROOF that Ann is lying about the way the conversations happened between she & I and Tracy and her. She flat out LIED to everyone in these email threads stating I demanded she expel Linda Calder & Lois Kay when in fact I not only never made that demand but when she claimed that is what I was doing in our first email communication I Clarified outright that I had never demanded she expel the women.  Likewise, she flat out LIED to say Tracy never asked to join the group. I posted BOTH of those conversations in their entirety. You all have them in your hands yet NOT ONE OF YOU said a single Word about Ann’s Lies. Hail to White Sisterhood

Theresa El-Amin	12:07 PM (3 hours ago)

What’s imperative is the adoption of clear principles of unity and a code of conduct for FIST.

 It was very strange for Steve to be on that panel. It was painful to watch. Why in the world was he allowed to do that? It’s the liberalism that gets you in trouble and causes confusion.

Speaking frankly is a key feature of Black Radical Feminism. Studying the theoretical contributions of Black radical feminists is important.

There is new theory being developed and a whole new vocabulary. I’m trying to understand what we as radical feminist women see is oppressing us from all points of view. We must do this as women. That seems to be the core principle of unity we all accept.

Tina B	1:19 PM (2 hours ago)

Theresa, I am sorry we will not be working together here, but your decision makes sense to me. In this incredibly difficult task of gathering together women committed to women, and tobtransforming the whole damn system, we’re stumbling a lot. Ann invited you this not-yet-a-group because of our common experiences fighting systems of oppression on many fronts. But it was a misunderstanding not to insist on agreement to recognize that this trans(cult?lobby?incursion?) is part of the oppressive systems, not a solution.
I wish you well in your future work. I know we have common work together, somewhere.

C. A. B.	1:56 PM (1 hour ago)
to

Yes, we must insist on agreement that trans cultism is an existential threat to the rights of all women and that fighting patriarchy, misogyny, and sexism in all its forms are the central focus of the group.

Rfch	2:26 PM (1 hour ago)
to

Radical feminists:

*Are woman centered

*Are lesbian loving

*Reject classism, racism, ageism, sexism, all negative isms that affect women, are especially careful to consider the multiply oppressed.

*Reject lesbophobia

*Reject the dogmatic view that males can be women based on their personalities, kinks or habits

*Do not ally with those that would hurt or kill us

*Do not compromise politics to include men or make them honorary allies in the face of evidence of male supremacy in the hopes of convincing them to help

*Speak clearly, honestly and with intention, do not rely on insults as arguments

*Never say things we know are not true in order to persuade or recruit or win

*Take time to learn our real history and consider the experiences of those who do not share the same privileges

*Fight patriarchal norms and values in whatever form they appear, including in the expressions of other women.

*Work to disrupt the system of male supremacy and realize that radical feminism asks something of us

*Recognize the connection between Radical Feminism and Lesbian Separatism

This is only a partial list. Do those responding really consider this “narrow”? Or should radical feminism mean something?

And why are women ingratiating themselves to Theresa, after her male supremacist informed insults on Bev? Why not apologize to the women who have brought problems to the fore with honest intentions, like Laura and Tracy?

Christina

—–Original Message—–
From: Shoshana Han<>
To: Bev <>
Sent: Mon, Sep 24, 2018 1:40 pm
Subject: Re: Male allies & “transwomen”

so you will leave now?  that would be fantastic!  ciao. we’ll call it whatever the hell we want.

Bev	3:57 PM (7 minutes ago)

Not if you keep lying about it being Radical Feminist.  Your list for what that is is massive and includes so many issues, which makes it even more amazing that some of us are called narrow.  Like do all agree to abolish Israel, as most Leftists do?  But no mention of abolishing the US and giving the land back?

Bev

Rfch	4:05 PM (6 minutes ago)
to

Shani, who is the bully? Why take this private?  Christina

–

—-Original Message—-
From: ayl <>
To: Feminists in Struggle>
Sent: Mon, Sep 24, 2018 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: Male allies & “transwomen”Now would be a great time for Bev Jo et. al. to stop bothering then. Sorry you put in so much labor, but this group mostly doesn’t seem to fit your definition so let’s part ways before you waste more labor.

Bothering”?

Sorry that this is going on too long for your taste, but it is as yet unresolved. And it will stay unresolved as long as women continue to insult, lie, and insist on racism, classism, and gutting of radical feminism.

Who is “et al”? Women who give a shit about defining radical feminism to include women who are not white, class privileged, het etc?  Christina

ev	4:07 PM (4 minutes ago)

Um, why am I named rather the other four women who also were objecting to the racism and dishonesty?  We are still being slandered so we respond.

Also, I’d appreciate the private messages to be taken to the entire group. I do not want to be behind closed doors with anyone supporting what a few women are doing in the name of Radical Feminism.Bev

Bev	4:24 PM (5 minutes ago)
to

Of course you can, and invite your male allies in or anything else non-feminist.

Who is harassing and bothering who?  You tried to get me behind closed doors to bully me.I was specifically invited by Ann to join this group and I put more time in than most.  But you just taunt and try to deflect the group into something else entirely, which is way more narrow than what we’ve been accused of — if anyone cares to re-read your previous emails.As long as I’m being slandered and harassed, I answer.But I question why I’m being targeted and not the other women involved. (At this point we seem to have about half the numbers.) I wholeheartedly supported Ann in starting this group until the charges of racism were brought up and ignored.  So, is targeting me and erasing Tracy, Laura, Christina, and Sherri about racism, classism, Lesbian-hating, Butch-hating, or what?Bev

From: pirate jenny <>
Date: Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 2:56 PM
Subject: What do you mean by an “investigation”?
To:

I have looked at the sceen shots. From what I can make out (and there was never a coherent presention by those bringing it to the group’s attention–at least not one that I saw), so I’ve had to make my own asumptions to round out the “storyline”).

From what I can make out, this is the story that was presented: A woman named Laurin Crosson has been ripping off destitute women in some kind of shelter situation (it was never specified what kind of place it was). Crosson believes in trans-racialism and has tried to pass herself off as white or Black, depending on her convenience. And a group of women, including Laura Akers, are concerned that some women included on FIST’s list have “liked” the Crosson’s posts and may be otherwise allied with her. That group is demanding that the women who may be aligned with her, be subject to an “investigation” as to their views about Crosson’s actions, and their views on trans-racialism before they can be included in FIST (or maybe should be kicked out of FIST/taken off its list.) The fact that FIST–and in particular Ann, has not responded to this demand is seen as evidence of racism, classism and the group not being really “radical feminist.”

No doubt I’ve gotten some of this wrong and don’t mind corrections, but this is the best I can make of these spotty references and demands that I’ve seen.

In the last conference call I expressed sympathy for women, particularly WOC, not feeling safe in a group that may be aligned with Crosson (as she is described)–and thought that maybe we should address these concerns in some way. On reflection, I have realized that I cannot come up with a viable scenario in which an “investigation” like this could take place. I see FIST as a potential group, not yet a formed one–I hypothesize that most of us are women in different parts of the country, doing our activism at our computers and trying to survive economically, with many of us dealing with health crises and/or spread pretty thin between our activism and survival.

We do not have easy access to plane fare to get to wherever this atrocity is taking place. There are no funds that we have generated (not being a real group yet). We do not have a “committee” structure, where some sub-group could take this on. It’s not even clear (at least to me) whether the women making the demand for “investigation” want the rip-off situation to be stopped (bringing in the courts?) or just don’t want anyone associated with the perpetrator in this group. There is also no instruction for how you differentiate someone who innocently “liked” a post that was not an honest one, from someone who is actually in league with a rip-off situation, believes in trans-racialism, etc.  I think Ann was honestly stumped by how a group not yet formed could take on something like this and was honest about it. The automatic assumption that this is racist and classist behavior is not justified by any definite facts that I can see.

So let’s put the shoe on the other foot. To those who want an “investigation”–and accuse those of us who can’t see a way to do this, of racism, classism un-radical feminist attitudes: what, exactly, is the plan for this that you propose? Please be specific.

As we used to say in Brooklyn: “shit or get off the pot”.

Thanks,

Fran

On Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 4:32 PM Laura Akers <> wrote:

WHITE. WOMEN. DO. NOT. GET. TO. DEFINE. WHAT. IS. OR. IS. NOT. RACIST. Ya’ll are TRULY Something Else.

All White humans are RACISTS. You either become Willing to unpack, lay down your privilege & break white code or you do not.

What is crystal clear is that Linda Calder & Lois Kay are unwilling to take any stand for Black Women when a White woman, whom they both Know & have continually Promoted within their group which had 20K members,….objectifies Black Women, uses their life as a costume to enjoy, talks shit to them & inflicts harm onto them. After they were shown all of the evidence they decided to continue to support Laurin Crosson and share her post on their page.

As far as the rest of you, Only Racists UNWILLING to Unpack their privilege,  Relinquish White Social Standard & Break white code would make these kinds of arguments ya’ll are making.

Sherri Golden	6:49 PM (8 minutes ago)
to

I’m done. Please remove me from this group. I’ve seen more than enough.

Below: Kat Mantszi

Sherri Golden	7:09 PM (54 minutes ago)
to

Kat, I WAS in the call, remember? I was the one who asked to investigate based on the evidence Laura provided, remember? The question which was never answered or addressed by Ann or anyone else except Theresa, who also stated that she felt and investigation was in order, remember??

Carol Hani	7:27 AM (3 hours ago)
to

I agree with most of this and commend Fran for having the political patience and making the effort to put it forth. I would only add that there was another major “branch” in addition to the radical feminist and the lesbian/cultural feminist branches and that was the socialist-feminist branch. A part of that branch made an important contribution with a Marxist analysis on the capitalist exploitation of “women’s” work” of reproductive labor–housework, child-bearing and caring, etc.–in both the public and private spheres. Reproductive exploitation by both men and capitalists needs much more emphasis in the FIST document.

Carol Hani

Theresa El-Amin	8:45 AM (1 hour ago)
to

I trust the women who have asked to be removed from this thread have been. I spoke with Ann last night and agreed to serve on the committee formed on Friday evening during the conference call.

There is quite a bit that needs to be clarified. I’m in no hurry. However, I want to move forward with the tasks we agreed to undertake which include an edit of the statement and to begin work on a code of conduct that respects our diversity and lives up to inclusion of women of color and rejects the name calling that some of us have been guilty of. We know who we are.

I apologize for writing what I was thinking about the behavior of those of you attacking me and others who disagree with you. Some things are better left unsaid.

Thanks to Fran for focusing on the politics of why women who are radical feminists need to form a group to work for our liberation from all systems of oppression.

The code of conduct I proposed on Friday evening seems a priority. Women who have experience working in collectives know what is going on here is all wrong. What’s going on here is what I see white groups on the left do a lot. The outcome is predictable. People leave or are kicked out. The group is weaker or no longer engaged in any work according to their bylaws or basis for unity. Ann and I were in such a group for decades. It called itself “socialist, feminist, anti-racist”. However, the organization culture was and is white male dominated.

 I spoke frankly with Ann last night about her lack of leadership in this group she started. She was wrong to think that the serious charges from Laura would somehow go away.

I’m confident there are women in this group willing to create an organizational culture of anti-racism. Six of us have agreed to work on the statement of who we are, what we are for and what we want to change.  We will be meeting soon to work on a proposal for a revised statement to submit for your review. Thanks to those of you who have offered specific suggestions. Please continue to do so.

In the way of further introduction, I started working to end white supremacy in 1965 as a student at Tuskegee recruited from a classroom by Stokely Carmichael (Kwame Ture). Some of us who participated in the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) are still alive and active as radical feminists in major cities around the country including the Bay Area, New York, Chicago. I live in Columbus GA about 100 miles south of Atlanta.

I want to know more about who you are as women who plan to respectfully participate in building something new for women’s liberation. We must be strong in our defense of the right of us as women to form our own organization for ending all systems of oppression.

I started the Southern Anti-Racism Network (SARN). We begin celebrating our 20th anniversary in November 2018 into June 2019. SARN is a grassroots organization devoted to ending racial disparities.

 After speaking with Ann last night, I’m convinced she’s open to working collaboratively to build this new thing. I respect that she brought us together and that her leadership is important.

Forward,

Theresa El-Amin

www.projectsarn.org

Marjorie Steakley	Tue, Sep 25, 10:35 PM (2 days ago)
to

Hello,

I’m getting over a cold but have now read all of the email I’ve received since being added to this group. I first became involved in hard left mov’ts @ the beginning of ’03 while in Memphis bcz of the runup to the Iraq War. I left a similar ‘socialist feminist’ organization after <5 yrs. bcz it was also hopelessly dominated by white males. I found the complaint “more radical than thou” to be as classist as Downton Abbey. I am needing a group that is not only male exclusionary but middle class exclusionary as well. The perennial plague of racism painfully demonstrates the dire need for white exclusionary groups, but that leaves me out in the cold. A lot of Black & Brown Wombyn have been burned by intractable misogyny in Afroseparatist & Native Separatist groups & are needing a safe haven where they are sheltered from both misogyny & racism. As I’ve complained for yrs., the white left is just as racist as the right; it just Blackwashes & Brownwashes in total denial of its own white privilege. I have permanently separated from the white left as it’s hopelessly & irredeemably misogynist, racist, elitist, classist, youthist, fatphobic, adultist, homophobic esp. against Lesbians, heterosexist esp. against Detrans Ppl. & ableist esp. against Ppl. w/Early Static Disabilities, incl. me. As I’ve posted in social media, the white left was never about liberation mov’ts as it has fraudulently claimed; it has always been from the very beginning in 18c about libertinage. Theocracy & libertinage are Opposite Wings of the Same White Male Vulture & cannot exist w/o ea. other. As surely as contards bite the liberal hand that feeds them, libtards bite the conservative hand that feeds them.

For 15 yrs., I have received the late Raya Dunayevskaya’s teaching that the revolution must be total from the start. The capitalist white supremacist patriarchy evolved from the medieval regional christian theocracy. It cannot be brought down w/o a direct assault upon its still extant medieval core power structures. A few medieval structures are now extinct, having been succeeded by newer technologies, e.g. the shipping industry, the whaling industry & medieval knighthood. However, the surviving medieval power structures are so entrenched that it’ll require tremendous cohesive force (violence) to break them. IMHO, only AI will have sufficient technological, military & cognitive superiority to effect such a coup. The extant medieval core power structures are:

The church

European royalty & nobility

The medical establishment

Academia

The sex industry

The white left is only allowed to attack power structures which emerged after the medieval christian theocracy transformed itself into white nationalism, e.g. the energy industry, the military industrial complex, the financial industry & capitalism itself. Anyone who dares to attack the medieval institutions still in power is branded “ableist,” “anti-Catholic,” “anti-Hellenic,” “anti-Masonic,” “antisemitic,” “anti-science,” “arrogant,” “bigot,” “biological determinism,” “bourgeois,” “chemophobic,” “China-bashing,” “cis,” “conspiracy buff,” “conspiracy theorist,” “ecoterrorist,” “Europhobic,” “food disparagement,” “health nut,” “hippie,” “irresponsible,” “Islamophobic,” “Luddite,” “man-hating,” “misandrist,” “neurotypical,” “Orwellian Anti-Sex League,” “pointy hat,” “prude,” “quack,” “self-hating trans,” “self-righteous,” “SWERF,” “terrorist,” “tin foil hat,” “TERF,” “transphobic,” “tree hugger,” “wingnut” & the whole litany of mental ableist hate speech. It’s neither an accident nor a coincidence that some of the above hate speech originated from the right during the cold war. It’s also neither an accident nor a coincidence that any criticism of extant medieval power structures is greeted w/a firestorm of misogyny, racism, elitism, classism, adultism, youthism, fatphobia, homophobia against Lesbians, heterosexism against Detrans Ppl. & ableism against Ppl. w/Early Static Disabilities (Ppl. w/Late Disabilities experience youthism rather than true ableism). There’s no way in hell that any bourgeoisie are going to sacrifice their cushy bourgie careers & lifestyles to challenge these medieval power structures to bring down white supremacy before it collapses under its own weight, leading to a bloody conflagration between rival patriarchies over succession which is sure to destroy what’s left of the environment & the climate, not to mention scapegoating & raping billions of Wombyn, Children, elders, Ppl. in Poverty, Sexual Minorities & Ppl. w/Early Static Disabilities.

For these reasons, I do not wish to be part of this group & wish to be removed from the email list. Thank you for your understanding.

Urgently,

Marjorie E. Steakley

————————————————

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 7:15:50 PM UTC-4, Shani Han wrote:

Dear Group,

I was not on the call last night so I want to make my position clear.  I am 100% opposed to any investigation of women in the group based on their interactions with a third party. I am even more opposed to a litmus test for members.  Members must agree to the principles of the group. Period.  The idea that we would control what people or groups women interact with is abhorrent.  One principle of FIST will be that the group doesn’t ally with far-right Christian groups.  That doesn’t mean that an individual in this group can’t be a member of a group that does, etc.  If we go by that principle, I would want to know the political affiliations of all the women in the group, their stance on Palestinian self-determination.  Their stance on U.S. foreign policy, neo-colonialism etc.  I would expect all women to hold strong anti-war positions.  I would also expect that all members support self-determination for people of color (up to and including reparations for black americans, the return of National Parklands to Native Americans etc. ).  On that note, what are women’s positions on anti-Islamic dress laws?  I consider laws that prohibit certain dress to be racist and anti-women. Other women see these laws as liberating for women.

I think that I make made my point. I also think that we should consider dropping the term Radical Feminist.  NOT as a concession to bullies, but because it has become an identity politic, and is associated with the behavior of a purity politics where all vocabulary, behavior etc.is narrowly described.

Again I am completely opposed to an investigation.

Shani

From: Theresa El-Amin

Looks like I’m added to the list. The vitriol of the past few days, reminded me of the codes of conduct adopted by the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) listserv and the Black Left Unity Network (BLUN) listserv. Some of us bring into FIST past personal and/or organization relationships. This should not be a space to play out old vendettas. That’s the gist of the messages posted at the end of each message on the SNCC and BLUN lists. Moving forward, I will share the text from the BLUN and SNCC listserv codes of conduct that cite consequences of violations.

On the issue of women charged with racism, it’s a charge that can likely be made of others in this group based on a low level of consciousness about power and prejudice. White people routinely use tokenism as a way of bringing people of color into organizations. That’s institutional racism.

 An organization in Boston called Women’s Institute for Leadership Development (WILD) transformed itself around 1993 when the director responded to women of color charging white liberal racism (tokenism, all white leadership bodies, etc.) The director railed against the use of the word “diversity” and declared, “We’re talking about sharing power!” The anti-racism statement needs to have substance in terms of how FIST will be different from many feminist organizations started by white women with little experience working with women of color. Feminists who are in all white or overwhelmingly white organizations need to examine their commitment to anti-racism.

 Is everyone clear in FIST that white supremacy is what we mean by racism? The Challenging White Supremacy Workshop was the catalyst for forming the Southern Anti-Racism Network. Check out www.cwsworkshop.org

The CWS Workshop shut down around 2008. It was based in San Francisco. The founder, Sharon Martinas, created a space for white activists to learn about white privilege and become anti-racist activists. She connected many young white activists with SNCC vets based in the Bay Area.

Sharon Martinas and Anne Braden stand out as reliable allies in the struggle to end white supremacy. I learned a lot from them about what reliable allies can do in the cause of dismantling white supremacy. I trust FIST will develop a process for learning about feminists who devoted their lives to fighting racism. Based on things I’ve heard and read since the group started, there is a need for consciousness raising on anti-racism.

Theresa El-Amin

From: C. A. B.
To: feminists-in- <
Sent: Wed, Sep 26, 2018 4:40 pm
Subject: Re: Investigation

I fully expect I will get a shitstorm of labels and attacks for daring to be honest and saying what I am going to say, but it needs to be said and I’m quite sure I’m the only one who will. So here goes.

Consciousness-raising is one thing.  Labelling people as “racist” just because you perceive them as having a “low level of consciousness about power and prejudice” or because they disagree with you is quite another.  It is far more persuasive and less offensive (as well as responsible) to say that something seems insensitive or unaware and to take the time to explain what you mean than to dismissively label someone’s comments as racist in an attempt to be one-up or to pretend to be morally superior.  It is about the abuse of power, of which anyone is capable and about which we all need to be mindful.  I totally agree that we need some ground rules, and hope you will hold yourself to whatever code of conduct on which we agree to operate Theresa, which needs to include not labelling, pigeonholing, name-calling, assassinating people’s character, or engaging in ad hominem attacks (several of which you have done more than once).

If we really want a functional, healthy organization where members feel safe to speak their minds, rather than a few people dominating the conversation and dictating what we should think, no one’s voice can be more important than anyone else’s and everyone’s perspective needs to be equally respected, period. Otherwise we will be creating a very dysfunctional, ugly group where no one who is capable of and values interacting in a healthy, supportive, rational manner would want to be.

Carol

Lois Kay <lois@>

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Today, 9:42 AM

You;

Sherri Golden ();

Ann Men;

+7 more

Sherri,

Does anyone here deal in logic? Just because someone doesn’t like me, doesn’t mean their slander about me is TRUE. It is beyond absurd that anyone refer to either Linda or myself as racist, and it is equally inappropriate that the assertion isn’t challenged by fair-minded people. (Are there any of those here?)

I am being accused of something horrific because I was an admin of a group that had a member who said something they didn’t like. I DID NOT APPROVE OF *ALL* THINGS ALL THE 30,000 MEMBERS ON THAT PAGE SAID AND DID!!! FFS – I was running an ANTI-PORN page, and sourced ANY content which advanced my mission – I didn’t “investigate” or purity vet the souls of everyone in order to have them permitted to engage. It was an OPEN and PUBLIC page – not a private little groupthink collective. It was for ANYONE who wanted to discuss the topic of ANTI-PORN. 

So for anyone to take it up with ME that they didn’t like a member, is fucking stupid as hell. 

I am not a racist; anyone who believes the absurd nonsense accusation against me can go to hell. 

I joined this group in good-faith FOR ACTIVISM, and since day one – I have been unjustly bullied and attacked. It is shameful.  

RE:

Lois Kay

laura akers

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Today, 10:34 AM

Lois Kay (lois@);

Sherri Golden ();

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Lois,

I notice you did not acknowledge your statements on the Laurin Crosson thread (on my page) regarding Kelly Crockett’s position & the accusations she hurled at me without ever asking me a single question. At that time you claimed RF’s are like a mob. Are you even a Radical Feminist? You are Anti Porn but that doesn’t mean you are a RF. You did not speak well of RF’s in your brief comment.

You are working to minimize your involvement in the Laurin Crosson situation instead of being Anti Racist Lois.

Laurin wasn’t just a random poster on Refuse To Date Men who Use Porn. She was being given a platform & was a very Frequent poster, fancying herself as an educator, which is right in line with your personal aim for that page…..to educate men…  You posted her statements without ever verifying if any of it was true. To date there is ZERO proof that Laurin Crosson was in adult films. The adult film industry & it’s players were well documented back then during the time she claims to have starred & won awards…YET there is ZERO about her to be found on Google. Additionally she has refused to provide proof herself to substantiate ANY of her claims.

You were present in the meetings regarding Laurin Crosson among Refuse Mods. You supported Kelly Crockett and Kelly Crockett was defending Laurin Crosson as is evidenced in your comment on the fb thread. Also you disallowed Tracy Neal to post an Anti Racist statement on your Refuse page even though she had been victimized by Laurin ON YOUR PAGE. Laurin Claimed to Be Black Right on Your page so the fact that you are arguing that you have no responsibility in the matter is utter bullshit. Radical Feminists do not support a White woman claiming to be Black & Know that Silence is Consent.

Laura

Lois Kay

Reply|

Today, 10:38 AM

You

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“Silence is consent” — what are you, a frat boy???

Did it ever occur to you that I am a busy woman – and didn’t make time to read every single FB, thread, email, etc about all things in the world? FFS. Even they accusations in this one reply of your to me would take at least 40 minutes to fully flesh out. I don’t have that kind of time.

Lois Kay

laura akers

Reply|

Today, 10:44 AM

You

Lois sent me this privately. Lois don’t send me private emails. Stand behind what you say. And what a joke. Did it ever occur to you that I am a busy woman & don’t have time to be dealing with Fragile white women who work to maintain their privilege at all costs?

Lois Kay <>

Reply|

Fri 9/28/2018 10:38 AM

To:

laura

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“Silence is consent” — what are you, a frat boy???

Did it ever occur to you that I am a busy woman – and didn’t make time to read every single FB, thread, email, etc about all things in the world? FFS. Even they accusations in this one reply of your to me would take at least 40 minutes to fully flesh out. I don’t have that kind of time.

Lois Kay

On Sep 25, 2018, at 9:59 AM, Shani <> wrote:

Dear Theresa,

Wow. I am in awe of your patience, commitment, and willingness to work through all this.  There are incredible women in this group, including those (I’m sure!) who haven’t spoken on this thread. I’m not much for expressing feelings (much better with abstracts and ideology), so I have to stop here.

In Solidarity,

Shani

Some of the women stayed out of the exchange but are now pledging support to Ann & her group now that we are gone including:

Thistle Peterson and  Rochelle Glickman   Thistle Peterson was one of the organizers of the RF conference in Chicago a few months ago. I witnessed Thistle Peterson along with her co organizer of that event make -Racist comments to Tracy Neal & multiple Radical Feminists stepping in on behalf of Tracy Neal to check Thistle on her racism. Tracy was so deeply uncomfortable with that exchange as well as with not being allowed to name Linda Calder & Lois Kay directly w/in that group that she backed out of the conference. Another Black Radical Feminist who also planned to attend felt the same & refused to attend too.

Male allies & “transwomen”

1 +

TN

Tracy Neal <>

Reply|

Today, 2:49 PM

You;

Lois Kay ();

Sherri Golden ();

+7 more

I’m trippin’ at all the lies going on in these emails.  When I was part of the Women In Media Secret fb group, it was Thistle and Rochelle that made racist and dismissive comments about Laurin Crossin and her racism.  Some of the genuine radical feminists confronted them about their racism and so did another black radical feminist.  Myself and other black woman decided not to attend that racist conference after being on the very thread that Thistle was being racist on.

As for you Lois Kaye, you need to stop with your mess.  Everything I’ve said about you and to you is true and you know it.  What would be the point in lying when you have exposed yourself as the racist you are multiple times in these emails?  F.I.S.T. is a dirty joke and I can do nothing but laugh at you all claiming to be a radical feminist organization.Tracy Neal

Tracy Neal <>

Reply|

Today, 3:05 PM

You;

Lois Kay ();

Sherri Golden ();

+7 more

I have to make a CORRECTION.  “Rochelle” is not the name of the other racist  woman in the Women In Media ConferenceSecret Group FB page.  Please disregard my error and charge it to my bad memory, not my heart.

Tracy Neal

We will continue to update this document with any new exchanges or information as Sadly……….the conversation is still ongoing:

Here Anne As Sam Esther is Claiming Publicly that she was being trashed by us:

A few other notes: Stokely Carmichael was the black man who said that the only position for women in the movement is Prone.

I also took the initiative to get some responses from other Radical Feminists to this article promoted by Theresa El-Amin:

Laura Akers

September 22 at 9:23 AM · 

Hey My RF sisters can you take a look over this article and give my your comments as to How Radical Feminist this article is? There is a group forming claiming to be Radical Feminist and one of the leaders shared this article just this week. I need to hear from real RF’s who are willing to make a statement about this article as to how this either aligns with or conflicts with Radical Feminism, which they will stand by & don’t mind it being shared with others. Thanks in advance. And if you know any other RF who can offer a valuable comment please tag them.

PORTSIDE.ORG

Black Feminism Will Save Us All

Over the past decade, many feminists, especially young feminists, have embraced intersectionality—a framework emerging from black feminism that looks at interlocking systems of oppression around social categories like race, gender, class, disability and sexual orientation. The term has become a po…

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3Amina Cook, Tracy Neal and Marjorie Elizabeth Steakley

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Dee Faith I’m game.

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Laura Akers Awesome please comment away sister

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Dee Faith I don’t think anything about this article is radical. She doesn’t really even make a statement, but just links million dollar words.

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Dee Faith Never once says lesbian.

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Dee Faith Early on says the problems started a year ago. Really? Who was president when the DAPL protests took place? Occupy? BLM? What about the hobby lobby ruling?

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Dee Faith The first women to describe intersectionality was actually a Marxist author named Lillian Robinson, though she did not name it. She was white to she originally named sex, class, and culture and then later stated it was race.

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Laura Akers Any opinion on the notion promoted in this article that Queer & Transgender are Liberation movements?

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Dee Faith Radicalism addresses the root, yet she does not specifically call out race, class, and gender as systems of oppression. She is trying very hard not to offend the genderists, and ends up saying nothing about it at all. But really, she doesn’t even say anything strong about race or class either. I would not even share this.

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Dee Faith Well, does she even say transgender? I think she is hoping not to offend, but I think talking about “queer women” and being afraid of the word lesbian says a lot about how scared she is to say anything.

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Laura Akers Dee Faith From the bullet points: The trans of color community has critiqued policing and inequitable public services.

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Dee Faith She brings up Combahee, but doesn;t give any info or even link anyone to info. Most will skim that since it has been erased from our collective memory.

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Dee Faith oh, yep there it is

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Dee Faith I dunno. I think she might have had something to say, but got scared. This is not radical though. Radical theory seeks to abolish gender, not create movement within it.

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Laura Akers Dee Faith thank you sister

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Dee Faith I’m white and straight and have critiqued that same shit for years now. This is idpo and you are very welcome.

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Jai Kalidasi I agree with Dee. Whole lotta buzzwords, don’t really see females at the center and no roots analysis. Then the bits about queer black feminism and trans of color, ugh, no.

The thing is, what the author doesn’t realize is that the word queer, in the days of original Combahee River Collective, meant lesbian or gay–homosexual. That is all it meant to be queer, none of this genderific crap of the current era. So she doesn’t even realize, while she’s referencing with presumed respect such luminaries as Angela Davis and Audre Lourde, that “queer black feminists” to THEM meant Black Lesbians. It didn’t have a thing to do with gender ideology as cultivated today–which of course, as Dee said, has nothing to do with radical feminism.

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Laura Akers Jai Kalidasi Thank you for sharing that information

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Write a reply…

Tracy Neal I’m going to to start with the title “Black Feminism Will Save Us All” it’s time for black women to take of the capes and stop capin’ for everybody and dey’ momma for just ONE whole generation? Black women don’t have to save anyone. Our shoulders and backs are tired, fuck that shit!

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Laura Akers Ginny Brown Charlee Martin any opinions on this

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Ginny Brown I suppose I like to look at articles in terms of what are their useful points and which aren’t, rather than summarising them as ‘radical’ or not.

TBH it did seem to begin worryingly, suggesting that until the last year the US electoral system has had integrity (isn’t that strange considering how much it has excluded POC voters for ages?) and that white supremacy and misogyny only got welcomed to the White House and on campuses over the last year. And then, the lack of identification of key institutions of oppression, like the state and het family unit.

OTOH, encouraging people to take their political lead from militant grassroots organizers around issues like land justice, workers’ and migrants’ rights is surely a good idea. And her conclusion seemed so on-point:

/ Our theme of imagining justice is inspired

by disability scholars who urge us to think about how the world can be remade to embrace us in all of our diversity,
by the struggles at Standing Rock that enable us to consider a drastically, different relationship between humans and our environment,
by the restorative justice movement that asks us to rethink both rule making and rule breaking,
and by factory takeovers by workers in Argentina, and land seizures by the landless in Brazil, that suggest that we each must get, not what we earn or deserve, but what we need. /

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Laura Akers Amina Cook would love to hear your thoughts sis

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Marjorie Elizabeth Steakley Blackwashing. As liberal as a latte in a bistro. As bourgie as an SUV. This is what is meant by “buppies.” (Black, urban, professional)
The headline “Why we desperately need real intersectional feminism. Nadasen asks us to reject a narrow, superficial understanding of race or gender, she suggests that intersectionality at its core is a politics of liberation that we can—that we must—all embrace.” says it all. “reject a narrow, superficial understanding of race or gender”= an open sesame for transhumanism in all its ugly manifestations: transgender, transracialism & what I call transdisabled, using the oppressive social construct of ‘mental illness’ to, among other things, erase ppl. w/early static disabilities (incl. me), REAL disabilities who experience REAL ableism. Trojan horsing for transhumanism. Whoever touted this is COINTELPRO for sure. The source is as liberal as a latte as well.

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Laura Akers Thank you Marjorie Elizabeth Steakley.

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Barbara Avallon First of all, there’s no definition of “queer” or “queer black feminism” given in this article, around which “intersectionality” supposedly revolves. These days “queer” is most often straight people with kinks. Some lesbians identify as “queer” because lesbianism is now seen as “bigoted.” My understanding of the intersectionality of Kimberle Crenshaw is how the experiences of racism and misogyny intersect in the lives of black women, making a uniquely black female experience/s of oppression. The article also mentions “trans of color” as having “critiqued policing and inequitable public services”, implying that there is no criticism of actual males being accepted as “women” and females as “men”, which is conservative and uncritically accepting of “gender”, thus destructive of women’s rights. The article SOUNDS pretty good, but I think it has some very UNradical feminist fatal flaws in it.
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Laura Akers
Laura Akers Barbara Avallon Thank you for your comment

Yvet Ja Nadasen’s advocating for ‘real intersectional feminism’ is very important as there is so little out there to challenge the liberal co-optation of intersectionality. I appreciated that she included the herstory of the Combahee River Collective of black LESBIANS but it’s unfortunate that she ties their concept to queer and trans groups. It appears that she is missing a radical feminist and, by extension, a radical lesbian understanding of ‘woman’ or she is unfamiliar with how to to make those arguments. Either way, her arguments on behalf of Indigenous women, the environment, and labour would be empowered by a rad fem point of view. Without that she is still speaking to a liberal crowd.

Bev Jo Von Dohre “Intersectionality” was a later academic term after Lesbian Feminists have been writing and talking about being against all oppressions for decades.

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Bev Jo Von Dohre When I see “intersectionality,” I think of women coming later who never learned our history of being against all oppressions.

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Leslene Della-Madre “Intersectionality” was used in a question submitted to me by a mit when I was on a panel recently wanting to know about t*a*s oppression. It was used as a term to bolster the idea of how oppressed they are. I didn’t address it. I told him it was too loaded. He hated that response and was of course immediately disrespectful because “whaaaa” he didn’t get what he wanted

Bette Tallen There is little about this that says radical feminist at all. Misogyny is mentioned once, lesbianism not at all. NWSA, an organization I helped found, has moved from being an organization designed to promote women’s liberation and feminism to one that has been taken over by gender studies and queer studies. These two male dominated movements have depoliticized women’s studies and driven lesbians and lesbian theory from the academy. Barbara Smith, one of the authors of the Combahee statement said to me many years ago that just as she saw radical lesbian theory making real strides on issues of racism and classism we were driven out of women’s studies, now newly renamed gender studies.

Elizabeth Robertson Her statement about academics leading strikes me as very classist.